M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

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M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by EpicChef » Sun Jun 17, 2018 19:40

As has been known for a while now, junctions 13 to 16 of the M1 is getting smart! The new all lanes running scheme will connect the J6A-13 and J16-19 smart motorway, providing a huge section of smart motorway from J6A-19. I don’t think a thread has been set up yet for this scheme, so here guys, we can discuss now!!
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by DB617 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 08:01

Good to see it becoming consistent. Mainly for the ALR. Also I figure as the smart motorway becomes ubiquitous, it may be that the control centres manage to unify and inject sense into the way the VSL is run. Not to mention optimal incident management re things like closing L1 and L2 and summoning traffic officers for a vehicle exiting refuge.

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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by 85CF380 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 23:47

According to HEng 23.6 miles, £373m & just short of 4years to complete by March 2022, the same quarter as the M4 Smartification.
The project pamphlet 'Public info' exhibition' (2017) lists this as the only Smart Motorway in Tranche 3, with 8 listed as completed, plus one in early 2018 to make 9, leaving 5 others 'in construction' from Tranches 0 to 2.

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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by Ben302 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 21:30

Wonder if it'll mean that the J10-13 stretch gets converted to ALR

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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by James » Tue Jun 19, 2018 21:43

Ben302 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 21:30
Wonder if it'll mean that the J10-13 stretch gets converted to ALR
Its going to have to get looked at soon now, as it will be the only stretch between the M25 and M6 not D4M

Sadly with the substandard job they did installing it, it probably wont be a simple repaint job as most of the original armco was left in-situ. I would imagine they would now want a concrete barrier throughout.

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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by EpicChef » Wed Jun 20, 2018 20:00

They would probably install an RCB (a rigid concrete barrier) from 10-13 but I wouldn't be surprised if they kept it as DHS (dynamic hard shoulder), but if you have not been on that stretch recently you might not have seen it says "use hard shoulder" instead of "congestion, use hard shoulder" now, probably implying they want to make us able to use the DHS even without congestion and eventually have a D4 except where the hard shoulder has to be closed.
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by EpicChef » Wed Jun 20, 2018 20:07

James wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 21:43
Ben302 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 21:30
Wonder if it'll mean that the J10-13 stretch gets converted to ALR
Its going to have to get looked at soon now, as it will be the only stretch between the M25 and M6 not D4M

Sadly with the substandard job they did installing it, it probably wont be a simple repaint job as most of the original armco was left in-situ. I would imagine they would now want a concrete barrier throughout.
Careful! Remember the ALR stretches are not D4M they are D4ALR. "M" does not mean motorway it means with a hard shoulder. "ALR" means smart motorway, no hard shoulder. So the M25 till M6 would be either D4M or D4ALR.

The thing is, one of the main characteristics of D4ALR is that there are MS4s mounted on cantilevers instead of constant signals above each lane, and hard shoulder cameras have already been installed. Upgrading to include a rigid concrete barrier makes good sense, but I would not say that 10-13 should become ALR. It would mean unnecessary roadworks that could otherwise be omitted.

The only possible issue with that is that to open the hard shoulder and provide a fourth lane, we have to go down to 60mph. But if we can express this to HE, we could consider opening the hard shoulder with an NSL sign or green arrow pointing down, and message "Use hard shoulder" or "Use hard shoulder" with an NSL sign on the MS4 next to the message as well.
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by wrinkly » Wed Jul 11, 2018 17:13


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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by Chris5156 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 17:30

This is very welcome for the fourth lane it will provide, but the real problems on the M1 between M25 and M6 are not on this stretch - they are between J10 and J13. The hard shoulder is not opened nearly often enough and the way it comes and goes at absurdly frequent intervals around J11, 11a, Toddington and J12 is extremely difficult to understand.

The difference between the experience of driving that section of motorway - which, even as someone who has written articles about Smart Motorways to help other people understand them, I find stressful and bewildering - and the ALR sections further north is astonishing. J16-19 is simple and stress-free (at least for me, with my car's limiter set below the camera threshold) and older Smart Motorways really ought to be brought up to that standard.

I think I'd probably support HE revisiting J10-13 before starting work on 13-16 if I were to be given the choice.

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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by A303Chris » Thu Jul 12, 2018 09:28

Chris5156 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 17:30
This is very welcome for the fourth lane it will provide, but the real problems on the M1 between M25 and M6 are not on this stretch - they are between J10 and J13. The hard shoulder is not opened nearly often enough and the way it comes and goes at absurdly frequent intervals around J11, 11a, Toddington and J12 is extremely difficult to understand.

The difference between the experience of driving that section of motorway - which, even as someone who has written articles about Smart Motorways to help other people understand them, I find stressful and bewildering - and the ALR sections further north is astonishing. J16-19 is simple and stress-free (at least for me, with my car's limiter set below the camera threshold) and older Smart Motorways really ought to be brought up to that standard.

I think I'd probably support HE revisiting J10-13 before starting work on 13-16 if I were to be given the choice.
You have taken the words right out of my mouth, I was going to write something similar. Drove the whole of the M1 from the A406 to A1(M) last month, the D4ALR a breeze and it astonishing how much is D4M or D4ALR, the All Lane running at 80mph no problem but J10 to J13 is so stressful, a mixture of HSR and ALR, with HSR active on some bits and not on others then constant speed limit changes. For Example 60mph on the HSR running between J10 and J11 and J11 and J11a but 70mph on the ALR through the junctions. I'm an experience driver and J10 to J13 is confusing for me. I wonder what the accident stats are like now.
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by EpicChef » Thu Jul 12, 2018 20:00

A303Chris wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 09:28
Chris5156 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 17:30
This is very welcome for the fourth lane it will provide, but the real problems on the M1 between M25 and M6 are not on this stretch - they are between J10 and J13. The hard shoulder is not opened nearly often enough and the way it comes and goes at absurdly frequent intervals around J11, 11a, Toddington and J12 is extremely difficult to understand.

The difference between the experience of driving that section of motorway - which, even as someone who has written articles about Smart Motorways to help other people understand them, I find stressful and bewildering - and the ALR sections further north is astonishing. J16-19 is simple and stress-free (at least for me, with my car's limiter set below the camera threshold) and older Smart Motorways really ought to be brought up to that standard.

I think I'd probably support HE revisiting J10-13 before starting work on 13-16 if I were to be given the choice.
You have taken the words right out of my mouth, I was going to write something similar. Drove the whole of the M1 from the A406 to A1(M) last month, the D4ALR a breeze and it astonishing how much is D4M or D4ALR, the All Lane running at 80mph no problem but J10 to J13 is so stressful, a mixture of HSR and ALR, with HSR active on some bits and not on others then constant speed limit changes. For Example 60mph on the HSR running between J10 and J11 and J11 and J11a but 70mph on the ALR through the junctions. I'm an experience driver and J10 to J13 is confusing for me. I wonder what the accident stats are like now.
My goodness, I was just about to say that. Since there are so many views, I created this thread so we can discuss our views about upgrading J10-13. Then we can dedicate this thread to discussing J13-16.

Many thanks for your views on J10-13 here. I look forward to seeing even more views in the new thread!
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by darkcape » Thu Jul 12, 2018 22:24

Once J13-16 is complete once again the Leicestershire section will stick out like a sore thumb as the only classic section of motorway between London and Leeds.

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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by Chris5156 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 08:55

darkcape wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 22:24
Once J13-16 is complete once again the Leicestershire section will stick out like a sore thumb as the only classic section of motorway between London and Leeds.
There’s also still J35a-39 (roughly Barnsley-Wakefield) that remains in its original D3M configuration, and if you want to be pedantic then there’s also J1-6a. Watford is Hertfordshire, not London :wink:

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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by A320Driver » Fri Jul 13, 2018 14:34

In a similar vein, between J6a and J13 inclusive, the only junction not to have been re-modelled/re-built is J11.
Further up we have re-modelled J15, 15A and J19.
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by EpicChef » Fri Jul 13, 2018 17:20

darkcape wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 22:24
Once J13-16 is complete once again the Leicestershire section will stick out like a sore thumb as the only classic section of motorway between London and Leeds.
Once that section is converted I will miss the old MS1 gantries with the black corrugated metal and blue arrows under each MS1 pointing to the lane underneath.
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by EpicChef » Fri Jul 13, 2018 17:21

Chris5156 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 08:55
darkcape wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 22:24
Once J13-16 is complete once again the Leicestershire section will stick out like a sore thumb as the only classic section of motorway between London and Leeds.
There’s also still J35a-39 (roughly Barnsley-Wakefield) that remains in its original D3M configuration, and if you want to be pedantic then there’s also J1-6a. Watford is Hertfordshire, not London :wink:
They will smarten that too. Eventually we will have an entirely smart M1.
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by owen b » Fri Jul 13, 2018 19:08

A320Driver wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 14:34
In a similar vein, between J6a and J13 inclusive, the only junction not to have been re-modelled/re-built is J11.
Further up we have re-modelled J15, 15A and J19.
J11 may not have been fully rebuilt but it had several extra lanes added. I do Luton to M1 northbound quite often and there's briefly four lanes approaching the roundabout, I think it used to be two (possibly three, but definitely not four). Consequently it has more capacity and flows better. There's three lanes under each of the bridges, it used to be two.
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by darkcape » Fri Jul 13, 2018 22:45

Chris5156 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 08:55
There’s also still J35a-39 (roughly Barnsley-Wakefield) that remains in its original D3M configuration, and if you want to be pedantic then there’s also J1-6a. Watford is Hertfordshire, not London :wink:
To a muddy Midlander like me London starts at the M25 :P (when you need to put your "London hat" on for driving anyway)

Apologies, I usually use M18 & A1 to go north I didn't realise it wasn't improved all the way between Sheffield and Leeds. From 4a south the M1 always feels very quiet, I imagine it'll be a long time before that gets converted.

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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by EpicChef » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:00

darkcape wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 22:45
Chris5156 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 08:55
There’s also still J35a-39 (roughly Barnsley-Wakefield) that remains in its original D3M configuration, and if you want to be pedantic then there’s also J1-6a. Watford is Hertfordshire, not London :wink:
To a muddy Midlander like me London starts at the M25 :P (when you need to put your "London hat" on for driving anyway)

Apologies, I usually use M18 & A1 to go north I didn't realise it wasn't improved all the way between Sheffield and Leeds. From 4a south the M1 always feels very quiet, I imagine it'll be a long time before that gets converted.
When we go up to near Teesside where family lives from London, Google maps signs the M18 and A1 but I think the M1 and A1/M is an easier way cus we can cruise down the nice blue (now orange!?) line on the map.
Hook Moor is easy to negotiate and as long as you know what a TOTSO is you don't end up in Leeds on the M621.
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Re: M1 J13-16 ALR smart motorway

Post by Bryn666 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:16

darkcape wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 22:45
Chris5156 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 08:55
There’s also still J35a-39 (roughly Barnsley-Wakefield) that remains in its original D3M configuration, and if you want to be pedantic then there’s also J1-6a. Watford is Hertfordshire, not London :wink:
To a muddy Midlander like me London starts at the M25 :P (when you need to put your "London hat" on for driving anyway)

Apologies, I usually use M18 & A1 to go north I didn't realise it wasn't improved all the way between Sheffield and Leeds. From 4a south the M1 always feels very quiet, I imagine it'll be a long time before that gets converted.
South of 6a will never get extra capacity as they won't want extra traffic dumped on the A406.
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