South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
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South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
For reasons I won't bore you with I'm interested to know what the optimal route would have been, in January 1965, from south London (Balham) to somewhere in Yorkshire north of Leeds. Obviously the first part of the M1 was already open, but apart from that?
Thanks in advance for suggestions/opinions.
Thanks in advance for suggestions/opinions.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
I did a trip from up north ,passing through Scotch corner to Chelsea circa 1968. Down to the M18 was A1 , (can't remember much of that bit) ,and the M1 stopped around London Gateway Services , then known as Scratchwood Services.
Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
There was a lot more of the M1 by 1968 than there was in 1965...
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
Well, there are the 1965 Route Planning Maps on SABRE Maps that might just help with the question.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
I think the M1 got you to Kilsby, or maybe to the east side of Leicester, by 1965, pointing more north-west than north from London. However most of the A1 dualling, apart from short sections like Hatfield, would have been complete, so that would be a more likely route throughout.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
*Checks SABRE Maps as suggested*
Lutterworth. Or Coalville. Depending on when in 1965 you're on about.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
The southern terminus of the M1 was at Berrygrove (Junction 5) in 1965, so you would have had to use the A41 until the outskirts of Watford before you could join the motorway. At that stage the M1 would really have only been suitable for journeys to the Midlands and the main population centres of North West England.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
At least at the southern end you would have been able to drive straight through central London with far fewer restrictions and without paying the Congestion Charge.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
As I said in the original post, we're talking January 1965.
What the maps don't tell you is how fast (or slow) one route is over another.
I guess that the A1 all the way would have been quicker than the M1 and then trying to find a way north from Rugby?
What the maps don't tell you is how fast (or slow) one route is over another.
I guess that the A1 all the way would have been quicker than the M1 and then trying to find a way north from Rugby?
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
Going all the way up the A1 from London would probably have been the best bet but at that time I think there was still the bottleneck at Ferrybridge with the old bridge (S2) to contend with. The Newark bypass was, I believe, open by January 1965, but it might have been later that year when it opened.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
As I see it, you would have had to drive through Hatfield, and maybe Newark, but Stevenage, Stamford, Grantham and Doncaster had all been bypassed by now. I believe that the S2 through Ferrybridge was the last section of A1 in Yorkshire to be replaced by dual carriageway in 1967.Simon_GNR wrote: ↑Mon Jul 02, 2018 22:15 Going all the way up the A1 from London would probably have been the best bet but at that time I think there was still the bottleneck at Ferrybridge with the old bridge (S2) to contend with. The Newark bypass was, I believe, open by January 1965, but it might have been later that year when it opened.
The A1 would also have been the preferred route at that time for drivers travelling from London to Carlisle and Scotland, with traffic for Glasgow and West Scotland leaving the A1 at Scotch Corner.
Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
Yes though as Steven mentioned above the M1 already reached a bit beyond Rugby.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
Looking at SABRE maps, with the January 1965 date in mind, the M1 appears to only go as far as Lutterworth (J20) at that point...
As for the A1, it looks like the Hatfield bypass was already open, however as well as Ferrybridge not being dual yet, neither is parts of the A1 around Letchworth, St Neots (this is bypasses but only single!), Stretton, Long Bennington, Tuxford, Ranby or Bramham. The Network changes list on the Wiki suggests that the Aberford to Wetherby (Bramham) section was dualled later on in 1965, with the Carlton-Markham Moor (Tuxford) and Ferrybridge-Brotherton sections dualled in 1967, plus Long Bennington in 1968. Great Casterton-South Witham (Stretton) wasn't dualled until 1971!
As for the A1, it looks like the Hatfield bypass was already open, however as well as Ferrybridge not being dual yet, neither is parts of the A1 around Letchworth, St Neots (this is bypasses but only single!), Stretton, Long Bennington, Tuxford, Ranby or Bramham. The Network changes list on the Wiki suggests that the Aberford to Wetherby (Bramham) section was dualled later on in 1965, with the Carlton-Markham Moor (Tuxford) and Ferrybridge-Brotherton sections dualled in 1967, plus Long Bennington in 1968. Great Casterton-South Witham (Stretton) wasn't dualled until 1971!
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
I don't think M1 has ever gone to the east of Leicester. However, if you took M1 to Lutterworth, as it is suggested is as far as it went in Jan 1965, you could then take A426 to Leicester, then A46 to Newark to pick up the A1 to continue north.WHBM wrote: ↑Mon Jul 02, 2018 21:08 I think the M1 got you to Kilsby, or maybe to the east side of Leicester, by 1965, pointing more north-west than north from London. However most of the A1 dualling, apart from short sections like Hatfield, would have been complete, so that would be a more likely route throughout.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
CBRD (usually reliable) dates the opening of M1 j18-24 to November 1965. All academic, though, as it seems clear that the A1 would have been the preferred route back then.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
The Baldock Bypass didn't open until 1967Mattemotorway wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 14:10 Looking at SABRE maps, with the January 1965 date in mind, the M1 appears to only go as far as Lutterworth (J20) at that point...
As for the A1, it looks like the Hatfield bypass was already open, however as well as Ferrybridge not being dual yet, neither is parts of the A1 around Letchworth, St Neots (this is bypasses but only single!), Stretton, Long Bennington, Tuxford, Ranby or Bramham. The Network changes list on the Wiki suggests that the Aberford to Wetherby (Bramham) section was dualled later on in 1965, with the Carlton-Markham Moor (Tuxford) and Ferrybridge-Brotherton sections dualled in 1967, plus Long Bennington in 1968. Great Casterton-South Witham (Stretton) wasn't dualled until 1971!
The old Hatfield bypass alongside the De Havilland factory (the A1001 now) was open but remained a major bottleneck until the tunnel opened. There were a number of sections of substandard road between Baldock and St Neots in the early 1980's which were gradually improved. At Tempsford the turn off for Everton was a very hairy tee junction with no slip directly off the A1 on what is now a LAR road until the mid 90's.
From Lutterworth you could have driven up the A426 to Leicester and then taken the Fosse Way to the A1 at Newark. The Fosse Way was a favourite with caravanners from the NE to Devon and Cornwall. as late as the mid 1970's. In 1976 we were looked at askance at a Caravan club meeting in Wadebridge because we had used the M1/A38/M5 route.
Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
The M1 quite obviously goes to the west side of Leicester, not to the east. Who writes this rubbish ?
Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
Suppose you were going to somewhere like Bedale, most of the A1 was D2 or D2M by 1965, with only some short sections of S1 in Herts and Cambs, so this would have been more practical, as the M1 was incomplete. Even by 1968, when the M1 was extended to Leeds, you'd still have to either cross Leeds, or use the A642 to reach the A1, which is quite a slow road.
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Re: South London to North Yorkshire, 1965
The Chronology Map in the Motorway Database on CBRD indicates that the M1 between Pinxton and Thurcroft and the M18 between Thurcroft and Wadworth were both opened in November 1967, so that you could use motorway between Mill Hill and Redhouse.