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This is the new sign on A48 westbound approaching M4 junction 28 - Tredegar Park roundabout.
Passing this sign, then arriving at traffic signals at what is still, in a way, a roundabout, was bizzare - not to mention deciphering/navigating the new road layout to go anywhere other than westbound on M4 or A48.
(Apologies for the poor quality of the photo.)
No idea about the legalities of the sign, I don't remember seeing something like that approaching what is a complicated roundabout/gyratory though
Just had a quick read of the plans for this 'upgrade'. Looks to be a cheap way to try and get traffic off the M4 and using the A48, at the expense of everyone else using the junction?
Aled wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 15:14This is the new sign on A48 westbound approaching M4 junction 28 - Tredegar Park roundabout.
Passing this sign, then arriving at traffic signals at what is still, in a way, a roundabout, was bizzare - not to mention deciphering/navigating the new road layout to go anywhere other than westbound on M4 or A48.
At first I really could not work out which road at M4 J28 we were looking at.
But having seen the latest map I now understand how, when travelling westbound on A48 (from Newport towards Cardiff), the road now splits into 3:
Straight on - for M4 westbound
Left then right - for A467 and eventually M4 eastbound
It seems like they've made the M4 westbound to A467 northbound movement more difficult. A lot of locals westbound will use J27 and drive through High Cross to join the A467 up the valley. This doesn't, however, fix the traffic coming from the A48 SDR (Newport side) because it seems like they've deliberately deprioritised that. Really odd decision.
Just noticed that the A48 to M4 East movement has also become equally difficult. Reasoning for this is probably to encourage traffic towards England to follow the SDR in the opposite direction to J24 at Coldra, bypassing the Brynglas tunnnels. This strikes me as an attempt to stop local originating traffic from overloading the Newport Bypass as it does at present. Newport residents would probably be much better off taking the preferred route to J24.
DB617 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 23, 2018 14:55
Reasoning for this is probably to encourage traffic towards England to follow the SDR in the opposite direction to J24 at Coldra, bypassing the Brynglas tunnnels. This strikes me as an attempt to stop local originating traffic from overloading the Newport Bypass as it does at present. Newport residents would probably be much better off taking the preferred route to J24.
Remember that when (if?) they move M4 (between J29 and J23) to the south side of Newport (as opposed to today's north side), there will be a lot less traffic going round today's M4 J28.
gepree68 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 23, 2018 16:03
Remember that when (if?) they move M4 (between J29 and J23) to the south side of Newport (as opposed to today's north side), there will be a lot less traffic going round today's M4 J28.
I had actually wondered whether the works under J28 were pointing more towards the 'blue route' solution than the 'black route' Newport Bypass that is shown here. The black route seems like it's in its death throes given the Welsh Government's seeming complete lack of urgency to reach a solution; it's becoming more and more likely that Plaid will secure the SDR improvements as an alternative. Not an acceptable alternative, I don't believe, without huge boosts to mass transit including affordability. A city bypass that will cost this country £1.5 billion by the time the public inquiry into the public inquiry of the investigation is finished seems dead in the water to me, as disappointing as it is. Building motorways just isn't in this country's soul anymore and politics gives far more time to those with a negative opinion of an ambitious project, than a positive one.
But yeah, saving my anti-WAG rants for elsewhere, it's possible that the works were aimed with a particular set of proposed longer-term works in mind, be it the SDR or the southern bypass, but given they've made movements along the current bypass more inconvenient with these changes, it's just as possible that they planned the works without any eyes at all on the massive changes that are coming.
Edit: Ah, there it is, thanks to ANiceEnglishman for linking the works page: "We want to reduce delays on the M4 and encourage more traffic to use the southern distributor road. We are also making the roundabouts easier to use." Makes sense.
As an aside, none of the roads involved are trunk except the M4 slip roads but Newport City Council refer any complaints/comments on to the Welsh Government and contractors.
Querying this (as you do!) it seems they are in fact temporarily trunked for the duration of the works using some power the WG have.
You can find any answers you want on the Internet. Some of them may even be correct.
I was diverted via here during one of the many M4 closures. I simply didn't have a clue what I was doing and had to hope the car in front was going where I wanted to.
Hopefully it was just the combination of being disorientated, it being dark and wet, heavier than usual traffic owing to the closure, lots of lanes closed around the junction which meant the lane advice signs weren't any good, and trying to find diversion signs which weren't there.
ANiceEnglishman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 23, 2018 20:35
As an aside, none of the roads involved are trunk except the M4 slip roads but Newport City Council refer any complaints/comments on to the Welsh Government and contractors.
Querying this (as you do!) it seems they are in fact temporarily trunked for the duration of the works using some power the WG have.
It is possible the work is being done using Section 8 of the Highways Act which allows one Highway Authority to work on the roads belonging to another Highway Authority. This happens all over the place and avoids having two different contracts in place on the same scheme, ensuring that liabilities are clear.
Simon
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ANiceEnglishman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 23, 2018 20:35
As an aside, none of the roads involved are trunk except the M4 slip roads but Newport City Council refer any complaints/comments on to the Welsh Government and contractors.
Querying this (as you do!) it seems they are in fact temporarily trunked for the duration of the works using some power the WG have.
It is possible the work is being done using Section 8 of the Highways Act which allows one Highway Authority to work on the roads belonging to another Highway Authority. This happens all over the place and avoids having two different contracts in place on the same scheme, ensuring that liabilities are clear.
Simon
Found it now. This is what I was told
Newport City Council wrote:These road improvements are being carried out by WG using its statutory powers under S83 of the Government of Wales Act. This means they are discharging all highway duties themselves including any temporary traffic management measures.
You can find any answers you want on the Internet. Some of them may even be correct.
ANiceEnglishman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 23, 2018 20:35
As an aside, none of the roads involved are trunk except the M4 slip roads but Newport City Council refer any complaints/comments on to the Welsh Government and contractors.
Querying this (as you do!) it seems they are in fact temporarily trunked for the duration of the works using some power the WG have.
It is possible the work is being done using Section 8 of the Highways Act which allows one Highway Authority to work on the roads belonging to another Highway Authority. This happens all over the place and avoids having two different contracts in place on the same scheme, ensuring that liabilities are clear.
Simon
Found it now. This is what I was told
Newport City Council wrote:These road improvements are being carried out by WG using its statutory powers under S83 of the Government of Wales Act. This means they are discharging all highway duties themselves including any temporary traffic management measures.
Not come across that Act before - there's not much call for the Government of Wales Act in London where most of the schemes I work on are located.
Simon
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Local social media reports that the first collision after the introduction of the new layout occurred last night. Hopefully there were no serious injuries.
I haven't driven it after dark myself but apparently the lighting is poor (unfinished?). Signage is partially obscured by trees in at least two locations. I'd like to think there will be an investigation on whether these factors contributed to the incident.
You can find any answers you want on the Internet. Some of them may even be correct.
One thing with the sign is the Welsh before the English, while this was always the case in west and north Wales , i noticed over the weekend when I went down to Newport, this is the case in South Wales. Not so long a ago it was English before Welsh in this part of the country.
Since devolution is this standard practice.
Seriously though I do find then hard to read with so much information and while welsh is taught in schools do the road signs really need to be in two languages given (i have family down there), that no one really speaks welsh and the kids really dont want to learn it
A303Chris wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 14:23
One thing with the sign is the Welsh before the English, while this was always the case in west and north Wales , i noticed over the weekend when I went down to Newport, this is the case in South Wales. Not so long a ago it was English before Welsh in this part of the country.
It is now policy that all new signs have Welsh on top, whereas before it depended on the council area. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37676
A303Chris wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 14:23Seriously though I do find then hard to read with so much information and while welsh is taught in schools do the road signs really need to be in two languages given (i have family down there), that no one really speaks welsh and the kids really dont want to learn it
There's a definite problem with the design of Welsh road signs making it hard to distinguish between the languages and with the volume of information routinely presented to the driver. But I don't think it's all that objectionable to have Welsh on road signs in Wales.
Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:56There's a definite problem with the design of Welsh road signs making it hard to distinguish between the languages and with the volume of information routinely presented to the driver. But I don't think it's all that objectionable to have Welsh on road signs in Wales.
Agreed. In Scotland and Ireland, it's a lot easier because you can focus on a particular colour or font – but in Wales you don't have that luxury. One complication is that there are a lot of places in Wales that only have a name in one language, so you then have the question of whether to denote them as English or Cymraeg (or put them in both). There are also a lot of signs in Wales (particularly tourist signs, but not exclusively) that re-use the location, eg "Castell Harlech Castle", which is possibly more confusing than "Castell Harlech / Harlech Castle" but is more space-efficient.
Colour differentiation would have been ideal in Wales but political sensitivity in the 70s meant that both languages had to be seen as equal.
Never mind that it makes the signs difficult to read... were Welsh nationalists really going to be upset if Cymraeg is in a different colour (and arguably more prominent!)?
Bryn Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already. She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
