A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

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mjwbase
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A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by mjwbase »

The 40mph speed limit is now in affect in place of the 30mph limit in the Northolt / Greenford section - however the speed limits signs are wrong.

Eastbound there are no 40mph starting signs, just a 40mph repeater after a 50mph repeater.
Westbound there is no signs changing back to the 50mph limit, just 50mph repeaters as you come out of the Northolt underpass.

Attempted to report this to TFL but got absolutely nowhere with them.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by TRC666 »

Usual TfL speed limit cuts for the sake of speed limit cuts... :roll:
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by mjwbase »

and the speed limit signs are wrong - new 40mph signs replacing the 50 ones by RAF Northolt but still 50 repeaters on the main carriageway, Polish War Memorial exit slip and 50mph signs at the top of the eastbound entry slip

Also the 40mph signs at RAF Northolt were not put in place until after 7pm last night so we have had a 40mph limit signed as 50 with average speed camera for two days - wonder how many people including myself are going to be getting speeding tickets due to this. One of the new 40 signs is not even correct, they have managed to put a repeater instead of a full sized sign
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Herned »

That's down to 40 now? That must seem glacially slow when the traffic is free-flowing.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by thatapanydude »

TFL should hang their heads in shame!!
How an earth someone could think 40mph is the appropriate speed limit for this stretch of road is beyond me. Whilst I can understand why speed limits are low in inner city London, the A40 here is a good quality road, away from any houses etc. Hopefully one day the DFT will take back ownership of London's arterial routes.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by SteveA30 »

I expect they will apply similar reductions on other high quality TFL roads bit by bit so, don't get taken by surprise.
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A303Chris
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by A303Chris »

The 30 mph was installed due to a defective barrier, details here

While this indicates the 40mph is until next May to carry out works.

From a bit of investigation it seems after testing, the barrier is safe to be hit at 40 mph but not 50 mph or higher and therefore TFL have installed an 18 month TTRO on safety grounds as they have no budget this financial year to repair it and hope to do so next financial year.

On this thread from the London Reddit page it starts the same as this one but the above details come .

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mjwbase
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by mjwbase »

Update on this:

1. The eastbound 50mph signs are back in place just west of Polish War Memorial
2. New 50mph signs on the eastbound entry slip at the Polish War Memorial (replacing the wrong sized ones)
3. No full sized signs where the limit changes eastbound to 40mph, just a dot-matrix display board and a repeater
4. No full sized signs where the limit changes westbound to 50mph, just two repeaters
5. New 40mph sign entering eastbound onto the A40 at Long Drive (Dunelm)
6. New 40mph signs entering westbound onto the A40 at the Greenford roundabout

The change from 50 to 40 eastbound and 40 to 50 westbound is just west of the A312 junction (Target Roundabout) by where the footbridge passes over the road.

Correct me if I am wrong - didn't think repeater sized signs could be used to indicate the change of a speed limit and only full sized ones were permissible
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Chris5156 »

I've just been through this for the first time since it was put in.

The post above is still an accurate description of what's been installed, though the 40 signs on the mainline eastbound are no smaller than the ones that used to start the permanent 40 limit further east at Perivale. Those were always very small, almost repeater sized, and not ideal - but I wouldn't say the new start of the 40 limit has been put in with anything worse than the old start of the 40 limit.

One thing that hasn't been covered is that this limit is now almost certainly enforced, which the 30 wasn't. The boundaries of the temporary 30 were mid-way between average speed cameras, with one camera halfway through it, and the cameras were still calibrated to 50, so the enforcement was technically nil. Now the 40 limit spans the camera near Dunelm and the one at Perivale, so it's quite likely the system now enforces the 40 limit. I certainly wouldn't gamble on it still triggering at 50+ any more because there's now no reason why it couldn't enforce the limit. Certainly the new limit was very well respected this morning, when the 30 limit generally saw most traffic travelling at 45-50.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by A303Chris »

Chris5156 wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:02 I've just been through this for the first time since it was put in.

The post above is still an accurate description of what's been installed, though the 40 signs on the mainline eastbound are no smaller than the ones that used to start the permanent 40 limit further east at Perivale. Those were always very small, almost repeater sized, and not ideal - but I wouldn't say the new start of the 40 limit has been put in with anything worse than the old start of the 40 limit.

One thing that hasn't been covered is that this limit is now almost certainly enforced, which the 30 wasn't. The boundaries of the temporary 30 were mid-way between average speed cameras, with one camera halfway through it, and the cameras were still calibrated to 50, so the enforcement was technically nil. Now the 40 limit spans the camera near Dunelm and the one at Perivale, so it's quite likely the system now enforces the 40 limit. I certainly wouldn't gamble on it still triggering at 50+ any more because there's now no reason why it couldn't enforce the limit. Certainly the new limit was very well respected this morning, when the 30 limit generally saw most traffic travelling at 45-50.
Went through late yesterday afternoon, eastbound and most vehicles were sitting at 40mph, however the signing as you describe is appalling. If I had not read this thread, I would not have noticed that the speed was now 40mph not 50mph.

Temporary signs saying speed limit in place due to defective barrier, I thought this was just under the Target roundabout but the whole length to Perivale is now 40mph. Is the whole 2 to 3 miles of barrier defective or is this another way of TFL lowering a limit for environmental reasons on the sly.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Chris5156 »

A303Chris wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:45
Chris5156 wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:02 I've just been through this for the first time since it was put in.

The post above is still an accurate description of what's been installed, though the 40 signs on the mainline eastbound are no smaller than the ones that used to start the permanent 40 limit further east at Perivale. Those were always very small, almost repeater sized, and not ideal - but I wouldn't say the new start of the 40 limit has been put in with anything worse than the old start of the 40 limit.

One thing that hasn't been covered is that this limit is now almost certainly enforced, which the 30 wasn't. The boundaries of the temporary 30 were mid-way between average speed cameras, with one camera halfway through it, and the cameras were still calibrated to 50, so the enforcement was technically nil. Now the 40 limit spans the camera near Dunelm and the one at Perivale, so it's quite likely the system now enforces the 40 limit. I certainly wouldn't gamble on it still triggering at 50+ any more because there's now no reason why it couldn't enforce the limit. Certainly the new limit was very well respected this morning, when the 30 limit generally saw most traffic travelling at 45-50.
Went through late yesterday afternoon, eastbound and most vehicles were sitting at 40mph, however the signing as you describe is appalling. If I had not read this thread, I would not have noticed that the speed was now 40mph not 50mph.

Temporary signs saying speed limit in place due to defective barrier, I thought this was just under the Target roundabout but the whole length to Perivale is now 40mph. Is the whole 2 to 3 miles of barrier defective or is this another way of TFL lowering a limit for environmental reasons on the sly.
It’s almost certainly, as I said, so that pairs of average speed cameras now fall entirely inside the 40 limit, making it possible to enforce it.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by ChrisH »

Fixing safety fence = £££
Moving speed cameras = £££

...

Replacing speed limit signs and updating TRO = affordable.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Chris5156 »

ChrisH wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 16:15Fixing safety fence = £££
Moving speed cameras = £££
I believe you've just listed six more pound signs than are in TfL's bank account right now :laugh:
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by thatapanydude »

I would wager a bet that even if the barriers are repaired, we will never see 50mph limits again after Target.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Bryn666 »

ChrisH wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 16:15 Fixing safety fence = £££
Moving speed cameras = £££

...

Replacing speed limit signs and updating TRO = affordable.
Presumably a detailed RRRAP process will also determine that at 40 mph you can actually dispense with much of the central reserve safety fence...

That said, in Salford on the A580/A6 which is now 40 most of the barriers have just been replaced for what must be the first time since about 1975.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Chris5156 »

I reported the sub-standard 40mph terminal signs eastbound at Northolt back in early October. I've just had an email from TfL to tell me that they've been replaced with new 950mm roundels, as per my message, on 19 December.

Better late than never!

Haven't yet been through to see them myself but hopefully they're more visible than the tiddly things they replace.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Berk »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 17:52
ChrisH wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 16:15 Fixing safety fence = £££
Moving speed cameras = £££

...

Replacing speed limit signs and updating TRO = affordable.
Presumably a detailed RRRAP process will also determine that at 40 mph you can actually dispense with much of the central reserve safety fence...

That said, in Salford on the A580/A6 which is now 40 most of the barriers have just been replaced for what must be the first time since about 1975.
That means the limit can go back up again, surely?? :twisted:

In Peterborough, much of the central reserve Armco has had to be replaced, but not without a temporary 50 (instead of NSL) limit for up to a year. Job done, limit goes back up again. Simple.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by A303Chris »

Chris5156 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 14:42 I reported the sub-standard 40mph terminal signs eastbound at Northolt back in early October. I've just had an email from TfL to tell me that they've been replaced with new 950mm roundels, as per my message, on 19 December.

Better late than never!

Haven't yet been through to see them myself but hopefully they're more visible than the tiddly things they replace.
I went through there on the way to London Zoo on Christmas Eve and they didn't look much bigger and conspicuous. Still hard to notice the 50mph drop to 40mph
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Fenlander »

Berk wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 15:10
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 17:52
ChrisH wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 16:15 Fixing safety fence = £££
Moving speed cameras = £££

...

Replacing speed limit signs and updating TRO = affordable.
Presumably a detailed RRRAP process will also determine that at 40 mph you can actually dispense with much of the central reserve safety fence...

That said, in Salford on the A580/A6 which is now 40 most of the barriers have just been replaced for what must be the first time since about 1975.
That means the limit can go back up again, surely?? :twisted:

In Peterborough, much of the central reserve Armco has had to be replaced, but not without a temporary 50 (instead of NSL) limit for up to a year. Job done, limit goes back up again. Simple.
Yet there's still a few of these signs scattered around along with the odd yellow 50.
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Re: A40 Northolt / Greenford - new 40mph limit

Post by Bryn666 »

Berk wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 15:10
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 17:52
ChrisH wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 16:15 Fixing safety fence = £££
Moving speed cameras = £££

...

Replacing speed limit signs and updating TRO = affordable.
Presumably a detailed RRRAP process will also determine that at 40 mph you can actually dispense with much of the central reserve safety fence...

That said, in Salford on the A580/A6 which is now 40 most of the barriers have just been replaced for what must be the first time since about 1975.
That means the limit can go back up again, surely?? :twisted:

In Peterborough, much of the central reserve Armco has had to be replaced, but not without a temporary 50 (instead of NSL) limit for up to a year. Job done, limit goes back up again. Simple.
No, because barriers were not the reason for a 40 limit on the A580/A6.
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