Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

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Bendo
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Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by Bendo »

Looks like the Churchill Way flyover in Liverpool might have to be demolished.
Liverpool’s Churchill Way flyovers are CLOSING for at least six months from tonight for urgent safety checks.

Engineers have found worrying structural problems with the flyovers, some of which date back to the late 1960s. The council says parts of the road structure now “cannot be guaranteed as safe”.

The council says the roads need to be closed completely for a full investigation to be carried out. So the key city centre routes will be closed from 8pm tonight.

That means drivers and local residents will face months of disruption while engineers work out just how big the problems are.

And the authority has warned the flyover could have to be DEMOLISHED if the problems are too severe.
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https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/bu ... x-15209944

Thats going to cause some traffic chaos, although I am pretty sure the council have wanted it gone for a number of years anyway due to it not being "pretty".

Also a bit worrying that some of the issues appear to date back to construction but have only recently been discovered due to no inspection panels and they have only just thought to make some holes and have a look.

I wonder how many similar stuctures there are around the country with similar issues.
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Chris5156
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by Chris5156 »

Engineers have found worrying structural problems with the flyovers, some of which date back to the late 1960s.
What a bizarre turn of phrase. There's only two of them and they were built at the same time.
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

I assume, after reading the Liverpool Echo report, that the A59 Byrom Street will remain open for now between Hunter Street and the Queensway Tunnel roundabout/William Brown Street.

If it necessary to demolish both flyovers, it will have a significant impact on traffic using the Queensway Tunnel as Byrom Street would have to be closed at least between the tunnel roundabout and Hunter Street, and maybe even as far as the Leeds Street junction (it does not help matters that the northern flyover is very close to the junction with Hunter Street). I would think that drivers in Birkenhead would be advised to use the Kingsway Tunnel and use Leeds Street to access the waterfront.
boliston
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by boliston »

this is quite funny with the 'walking prohibited' sign
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SteveA30
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by SteveA30 »

Is that only allowed under the special Santa Clause? :coat: :oops:
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by boliston »

looks like there is a group that want to 'save' it http://friendsoftheflyover.org.uk/
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Bryn666
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by Bryn666 »

They've had 7.5t limits for a bit.

Truth be told they're ugly things that don't really connect to anything. The city centre wouldn't be worse off without them.
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FleetlinePhil
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by FleetlinePhil »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 21:41 They've had 7.5t limits for a bit.

Truth be told they're ugly things that don't really connect to anything. The city centre wouldn't be worse off without them.
It will improve the view from the Travelodge no end! :D
Bendo
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by Bendo »

Confirmed today that they can't be saved and will be removed. Won't be replaced.
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c2R
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by c2R »

The sooner they get on with it then the better - I've been there a couple of times since they've been closed, and the alternative signage has been poor to say the least, resulting in lost drivers not familiar with the area driving around looking presumably either for one of the tunnels, the way out, or the ferry ports!
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by c2R »

The New civil Engineer article makes interesting reading as to the "catalogue of faults" with the structures

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/report ... 95.article
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Berk
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by Berk »

How will the network be reconfigured to cope?? Both the article and the posts here suggest there was a large amount of redundancy because the connectors the flyover was meant to connect with were never built.

But does that mean that local roads can cope with peak hour flows??
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KeithW
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by KeithW »

Similar problems to those found in other contemporary structures like the Huntingdon viaduct. Expansion joints allow water and salt to get into the
concrete voids and from there into tendon ducts which corrode. The concrete pour did not have the sort of quality control checks as are done today meaning the rebar was not properly covered which produces spalling, worse there was no access for internal inspection.
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Berk
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by Berk »

The same issues are affecting the Lincoln Road footbridge at A47, J18, but not the “Rhubarb Bridge” flyover which it passes through/under.

Although both were constructed at the same time by contractors for the Peterborough Development Corporation and the county council, it seems odd that one structure is perfectly fine, and the other has suffered similarly to others elsewhere.

Of course the flyover is now maintained by HE’s contractors, Skanska.
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Bryn666
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by Bryn666 »

Berk wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 16:43 How will the network be reconfigured to cope?? Both the article and the posts here suggest there was a large amount of redundancy because the connectors the flyover was meant to connect with were never built.

But does that mean that local roads can cope with peak hour flows??
Some minor works will be required to allow direct right turns off Byrom Street onto Dale Street but that's all that is needed until a bigger plan for the area can be realised. It's needlessly dominated by roads at this point and could be much more rationalised without causing the end of the world.
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KeithW
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by KeithW »

Berk wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 17:21 The same issues are affecting the Lincoln Road footbridge at A47, J18, but not the “Rhubarb Bridge” flyover which it passes through/under.

Although both were constructed at the same time by contractors for the Peterborough Development Corporation and the county council, it seems odd that one structure is perfectly fine, and the other has suffered similarly to others elsewhere.

Of course the flyover is now maintained by HE’s contractors, Skanska.
The issue of variable quality in old work applies around the country, in the absence of a quality control regime it often comes down to the level of diligence of the site engineer. Many years ago I worked on a job that involved replacing some of the cooling water pipework at a power station which had been found to be substandard. As was common in the mid 1960's when it was installed the specification for welding was simple succinct and utterly useless reading as it did 'All welding shall be to a good commercial standard'. We were informed that 2 different contractors had been used. One had enforced good standards and adopted the policy of enforcing 10% radiography even though the contract did not call for it. They had even retained the radiograph films. The work done by this contractor was in good condition and was largely left untouched. That done by the other was appalling and it was a miracle the Turbine Hall basement had not been flooded by a failed weld. A failed 24" pipe can release a LOT of water very quickly. The steam pipework was fine as there had been a quality control system in place for it. When you are employing men who are paid a bonus for finishing quickly short cuts will be taken.
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c2R
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by c2R »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 18:03
Berk wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 16:43 How will the network be reconfigured to cope?? Both the article and the posts here suggest there was a large amount of redundancy because the connectors the flyover was meant to connect with were never built.

But does that mean that local roads can cope with peak hour flows??
Some minor works will be required to allow direct right turns off Byrom Street onto Dale Street but that's all that is needed until a bigger plan for the area can be realised. It's needlessly dominated by roads at this point and could be much more rationalised without causing the end of the world.
I agree - the initial chaos was caused by missing movements and poor diversion signage, but the bridges essentially do the wrong movements anyway, but linking city centre streets with one of older bypassed artierial routes. Their removal will help better manage traffic patterns in the city - provided some thought is given to it, that is.
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by WHBM »

KeithW wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 19:36 The issue of variable quality in old work applies around the country, in the absence of a quality control regime it often comes down to the level of diligence of the site engineer. Many years ago I worked on a job that involved replacing some of the cooling water pipework at a power station which had been found to be substandard. As was common in the mid 1960's when it was installed the specification for welding was simple succinct and utterly useless reading as it did 'All welding shall be to a good commercial standard'. We were informed that 2 different contractors had been used. One had enforced good standards and adopted the policy of enforcing 10% radiography even though the contract did not call for it. They had even retained the radiograph films. The work done by this contractor was in good condition and was largely left untouched. That done by the other was appalling and it was a miracle the Turbine Hall basement had not been flooded by a failed weld. A failed 24" pipe can release a LOT of water very quickly. The steam pipework was fine as there had been a quality control system in place for it. When you are employing men who are paid a bonus for finishing quickly short cuts will be taken.
First job out of university was overseeing such work in 1980.

The welders and pipefitters were different unions. Best of mates but knew absolutely the official dividing line between their trades. They were paid (including bonus, always paid) by the hour, including time waiting for the other trade to turn up or finish.

On Sundays the client's engineer did not come in, but reviewed daily progress on Monday morning. Therefore a different arrangement applied, known as "job and knock". Foreman said what work was to be done, when finished you can go (my job, among others, was to stay behind after they left and put all their timecards through the clock at normal finishing time, but that's another matter).

Union distinctions were forgotten. If there was no welder to hand the pipefitter would pick up the welding kit and do it - and the welders would expect them to do so to get away by lunchtime.

Now we also had x-ray of the welds, some on a percentage basis, more critical ones 100%. The inspector from National Vulcan, who did this work then, came around, but only I had the progress sheets which showed who did what and which ones were done on a Sunday (the pipefitter ones were put against the welding foreman). Do you know, the failure rate (and overall there were very few) for porosity etc was no worse on what the pipefitters had done than those by the qualified welders.
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c2R
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Re: Churchill Way flyover Liverpool

Post by c2R »

Chris5156 wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 16:36
Engineers have found worrying structural problems with the flyovers, some of which date back to the late 1960s.
What a bizarre turn of phrase. There's only two of them and they were built at the same time.
Reading the full report, I think it might be some of the structural problems that date back to the late 60s, not both the flyovers, which do.
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