Citroen 2CVs despite their reputation are now classics.Andy33gmail wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 18:30Well, there are Saxos from that vintage. I don't think a car that horrific could ever be a classic ... I'd argue this applies to all Citroens, but I suspect there are compelling counter-examplestrickstat wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 18:23I suspect not so cheap if they have moved from the 'banger' class to the 'classic' category.Andy33gmail wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 17:49
I wonder whether how cheaply you can get pre-1978 bangers for ... saves me the £500 to replace my car each year
Most insignificant dual carriageway?
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Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
Formerly known as 'lortjw'
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
The A1018 through South Shields. The dual carriageway has long-ago narrowed to one lane with the former inside lane used for parking and a cycle lane The reason why this is questionable is because every house along there has a huge driveway for multiple off street parking. The pavements are wide enough to facilitate shared use for peds and cycles.
The road markings are also ambiguous in the sense that you have the bays marked and what looks like a centre lane marking, which actually marks out the cycle lane. I can imagine in the absence of parked cars people using this as an inside lane and being caught out by the occasional kerb build-out.
If you're changing a D2 to a D1 then it needs more physical alteration so that the unfamiliar do not mistake it as a D2 with marked car parking bays. Random build outs and gobs of thermoplastic doesn't cut it.
This sort of scheme might tick the multi-user box but such a horrible design is hardly attractive from a public realm quality point of view. Public realm quality is usually last on the list from a highway engineering point of view. Hence why the quality of so many streets is made to be less attractive after traffic calming schemes through poor placement of markings and random and obviously retrofitted build outs at the lowest cost.
The road markings are also ambiguous in the sense that you have the bays marked and what looks like a centre lane marking, which actually marks out the cycle lane. I can imagine in the absence of parked cars people using this as an inside lane and being caught out by the occasional kerb build-out.
If you're changing a D2 to a D1 then it needs more physical alteration so that the unfamiliar do not mistake it as a D2 with marked car parking bays. Random build outs and gobs of thermoplastic doesn't cut it.
This sort of scheme might tick the multi-user box but such a horrible design is hardly attractive from a public realm quality point of view. Public realm quality is usually last on the list from a highway engineering point of view. Hence why the quality of so many streets is made to be less attractive after traffic calming schemes through poor placement of markings and random and obviously retrofitted build outs at the lowest cost.
M19
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
This dual carriageway on the A671, Whitworth Road between Rochdale and Bacup is one iv'e never understood.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.63855 ... 6656?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.63855 ... 6656?hl=en
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
Google lists both carriageways of that as the B4514, but I was under the impression that one was a B-road and the other was unclassified. (I've even visited it in person, and took the photos that are currently on the SABRE wiki; the signage seems consistent with the "only one carriageway is classified" theory.) Incidentally, the B4514 has parallel service roads (i.e. "the former other carriageway") pretty much all the way along, but when you get sufficiently far away from the A4040, the difference in standard between the two carriageways becomes much more pronounced (it's pretty much a B-road on one sided and a driveway on the other).PhilC wrote: ↑Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:24 Here is a stretch of road in Birmingham that looks as though it ought to be a dual carriageway way but isn't. It is two parallel two-way roads, one being the "official" main road, and the other being a service road in front of the houses on that side. For as long as I can remember the locals always treated it as a dual carriageway, it was only buses that seemed to follow the main rod. It was always a shock to be driving along what looked like a dual carriageway and meeting a bus coming towards you. In the last 12 months the council have blocked the ends of the service road so you can exit but not enter.
https://goo.gl/maps/YqxjjoCzxfP2
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
In Ireland, we have a few very short stretches of D2 and D1. One such stretch is on the N71 route immediately south of Cork city, a D2 of less than a mile in length. It dates from the 1970s. It was built just by laying down a new carriage way beside the prexisting one. It is used for quick overtaking and is planned to be replaced by a proper stretch of D2 in the coming decade.
On the N80 Carlow ring road, there’s a tiny tiny section of D1, also some tiny (and dangerous frankly) sections of D1 on the N25 Youghal bypass in Cork at the GSJs.
A few more but these ones come to mind.
On the N80 Carlow ring road, there’s a tiny tiny section of D1, also some tiny (and dangerous frankly) sections of D1 on the N25 Youghal bypass in Cork at the GSJs.
A few more but these ones come to mind.
Last edited by Enceladus on Tue Nov 20, 2018 23:33, edited 1 time in total.
Certified Roads Geek ... and proud of it!
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
There's a section of dual carriageway on the A1near Berwick upon Tweed I think is quite insignificant, the stange thing about it is that it has a 70mph speed camera on it. I used to look at a road map (with speed cameras) with confusion as it looked as if a 70mph speed camera was on a single carriageway, I thought it was a typo until I drove up there myself and realised there was a small dual section.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/A1,+B ... 2eb88dc15a
https://www.google.com/maps/place/A1,+B ... 2eb88dc15a
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
I believe it was done as traffic waiting to turn off the A1 was causing congestion and adding more roundabouts was considered undesirable. There are 2 minor junctions one major junction and an overbridge to give access to Letham Shank Farm on a 1 mile section of road. The B6461 gets a lot of tourist traffic headed for Paxton House in summer and is rather a pleasant route to Kelso and the BordersRoavin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 15:54 There's a section of dual carriageway on the A1near Berwick upon Tweed I think is quite insignificant, the stange thing about it is that it has a 70mph speed camera on it. I used to look at a road map (with speed cameras) with confusion as it looked as if a 70mph speed camera was on a single carriageway, I thought it was a typo until I drove up there myself and realised there was a small dual section.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/A1,+B ... 2eb88dc15a
You can see it better southbound where the Right Hand Lane is marked for turning traffic.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/A1,+B ... -2.0436137
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
You appear to be suggesting that the present layout is a modification to an earlier one, but I think it is unchanged since the Berwick bypass was built in the 1980s. Isn't it an example of a standard type of junction known as single-lane dualling (albeit a variant which has two lanes in one direction)?KeithW wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 17:04 I believe it was done as traffic waiting to turn off the A1 was causing congestion and adding more roundabouts was considered undesirable. There are 2 minor junctions one major junction and an overbridge to give access to Letham Shank Farm on a 1 mile section of road. The B6461 gets a lot of tourist traffic headed for Paxton House in summer and is rather a pleasant route to Kelso and the Borders
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
I see, but why on earth have 70mph speed cameras where few people are likely to exceed 65?KeithW wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 17:04I believe it was done as traffic waiting to turn off the A1 was causing congestion and adding more roundabouts was considered undesirable. There are 2 minor junctions one major junction and an overbridge to give access to Letham Shank Farm on a 1 mile section of road. The B6461 gets a lot of tourist traffic headed for Paxton House in summer and is rather a pleasant route to Kelso and the BordersRoavin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 15:54 There's a section of dual carriageway on the A1near Berwick upon Tweed I think is quite insignificant, the stange thing about it is that it has a 70mph speed camera on it. I used to look at a road map (with speed cameras) with confusion as it looked as if a 70mph speed camera was on a single carriageway, I thought it was a typo until I drove up there myself and realised there was a small dual section.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/A1,+B ... 2eb88dc15a
You can see it better southbound where the Right Hand Lane is marked for turning traffic.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/A1,+B ... -2.0436137
- RichardA35
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Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
Pretty identical to the west end of the Barnstaple bypass, east end of Charmouth bypass etc, etc
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
To deter those who would, there are always numpties around who put their foot down when its not appropriate.
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
But they will have been caught at the 60mph cameras (and fined more money most probably).
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
Like the similar ones on the A680 these were originally D2 before being remarked to what they are now as the lanes were narrow. The A680 example was notorious for having lighting columns on the centre islands that were always being flattened.Crimbo13 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 20:10 This dual carriageway on the A671, Whitworth Road between Rochdale and Bacup is one iv'e never understood.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.63855 ... 6656?hl=en
Given how painfully slow the A671 between Bacup and Rochdale is that small D2 must once have been very welcome.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
Reminds me of this section of the B5605 in Ruabon https://goo.gl/maps/j9bjYQsU2fA2 Which I assume was built long before the A483 dual carriageway as this would have been the main route. These days it looks a bit of a mess with all the fading hatching, rusting guardrail and being completely out of place compared to its surroundingsBryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 18:21Like the similar ones on the A680 these were originally D2 before being remarked to what they are now as the lanes were narrow. The A680 example was notorious for having lighting columns on the centre islands that were always being flattened.Crimbo13 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 20:10 This dual carriageway on the A671, Whitworth Road between Rochdale and Bacup is one iv'e never understood.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.63855 ... 6656?hl=en
Given how painfully slow the A671 between Bacup and Rochdale is that small D2 must once have been very welcome.
- Burwellian
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Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
Never understood the point of this bit of "dualling" on the A1304 (ex-A11) near Newmarket.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.20441 ... 312!8i6656
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.20441 ... 312!8i6656
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
It appears to date from the 1960s. Maybe the cheapest way of improving safety at a blind summit, on a road that was due to be bypassed anyway?Burwellian wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 17:53 Never understood the point of this bit of "dualling" on the A1304 (ex-A11) near Newmarket.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.20441 ... 312!8i6656
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
I love these, too. They even used to have signs just before them announcing "Dual Carriageway." You would just about get into dual-carriageway mode and then it was "end of dual carriageway..."
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
I love these, too. They even used to have signs just before them announcing "Dual Carriageway." You would just about get into dual-carriageway mode and then it was "end of dual carriageway..."
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Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
Driving around Falmouth this morning and noticed this rather suburban and minor road is actually sign posted (at both ends) as a dual carriageway!
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vA2uwQYszpouSPXRA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/mPQBTaEMCJZWjZ9R7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vA2uwQYszpouSPXRA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/mPQBTaEMCJZWjZ9R7
Re: Most insignificant dual carriageway?
Quite correctly in my opinion given that at first glance it would not be clear without the signs.Initiation wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:12 Driving around Falmouth this morning and noticed this rather suburban and minor road is actually sign posted (at both ends) as a dual carriageway!
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vA2uwQYszpouSPXRA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/mPQBTaEMCJZWjZ9R7