No Deal Brexit - the M26

[Nwallace]

Okay let's try and do a quick capacity calculation here.

The M26 is two lanes, and the usable length of carriageway between the M25 diverge at J5, and the exit at J2a, is roughly 13km.

Let's say a HGV is 16m long (using the FTA definitions used for Autotrack). That gives approximately 811 HGVs per lane, meaning you will probably get 1,622 parked up (leaving the hard shoulder open for police and HETO purposes).

How many vehicles does Operation Stack currently accommodate?

But let's consider there is a worst case scenario, how is stacking 1,622 HGVs going to make any difference bearing in mind the Channel Tunnel alone in 2017 took an average of 4,485 HGVs a day. Add in volumes going through Dover and this seems woefully inadequate if the border completely shuts down.

This is basically using some sellotape to hold back cracks in the Hoover Dam.

The problem isn't that the border will completely shut down due to Brexit; you'd need a strike on one side of the channel for that to happen.
No it's to deal with the considerably lower throughput at the border due to the increased number of checks required and the length of time they take; and that's after the 1000 extra customs officials the UK have apparently magicked up.

[Fenlander]

But have apparently done that work under secrecy, presumably on 'national security' grounds or similar.

This is the behaviour of a nation in a Transition to War state, very stupid times indeed.

Yes - don't want to stray too far from the purely roads aspect into a wider Brexit debate but it's difficult to think of any other road schemes in the UK that have proceeded with this sort of speed, efficiency and lack of consultation/publicity.

Maybe we've found that elusive Brexit good news - they've learnt how to short-cut the process and future projects will get done much more quickly!

The A43 was dualled surprisingly quickly after Bernie Ecclestone threatened to take the British Grand Prix away from Silverstone. For years afterwards, there were signs on that road celebrating the speed and efficiency with which the works were carried out.

We can do great things when we want to.

He did of course then take the GP away from Silverstone after the dualling and gave it to Brands Hatch. They couldn't make it work so Silverstone got it back again before he then gave it to Donington. They got as far as digging up bits of the track before realising they couldn't make it work so it went back to Silverstone again. Next year is the last GP under the current deal and they haven't agreed a new one yet. Where's it off to next?

[Chris Bertram]

He did of course then take the GP away from Silverstone after the dualling and gave it to Brands Hatch. They couldn't make it work so Silverstone got it back again before he then gave it to Donington. They got as far as digging up bits of the track before realising they couldn't make it work so it went back to Silverstone again. Next year is the last GP under the current deal and they haven't agreed a new one yet. Where's it off to next?

Wherever it is, it won't be Bernie's doing, he's been retired, and not by his own choice. But realistically, it's either Silverstone or no British GP, no other UK track appears to have the infrastructure to host it now. Brands hasn't had the investment, and Donington would need massive work too. These are the current circuits in the UK:

Aintree Motor Racing Circuit, Aintree
Anglesey Circuit, Aberffraw, Anglesey
Bedford Autodrome, Bedfordshire
Blyton, Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
Brands Hatch, Fawkham, Kent
Cadwell Park, Lincolnshire
Capital Karts, London
Castle Combe Circuit, Castle Combe, Wiltshire
Circuit of Wales, Ebbw Vale, Blaenau Gwent
Croft Circuit, North Yorkshire
Darley Moor, Derbyshire
Donington Park, Leicestershire
East Fortune, East Lothian
Goodwood Motor Racing Circuit, West Sussex
Kirkistown Circuit, County Down
Knockhill, Fife
Llandow Circuit, Vale of Glamorgan
Lydden, Canterbury, Kent
Mallory Park, Leicestershire
Nutts Corner, Belfast
Oliver's Mount, North Yorkshire
Oulton Park, Cheshire
Pembrey Circuit, Pembrey, Carmarthenshire
Rockingham Motor Speedway, Corby, Northamptonshire
Santa Pod Raceway, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire
Silverstone Circuit, Northamptonshire
Snetterton Circuit, Norfolk
Thruxton, Hampshire
Tonfanau, Gwynedd

These vary from full-size full-facility tarmac circuits to small circuits associated with horse racetracks. And I'm not sure that they're all open - I understood that Rockingham was on the brink of closure, for example.

[FosseWay]

These are the current circuits in the UK:

You forgot Stourbridge ring road

[Chris Bertram]

These are the current circuits in the UK:

You forgot Stourbridge ring road

So close to home too, how could I?

[Bryn666]

These are the current circuits in the UK:

You forgot Stourbridge ring road

So close to home too, how could I?

Bring back the Superprix. Although given all the sockets for barriers are still there along with the Halfords Hairpin it seemingly never went away.

[Chris Bertram]

You forgot Stourbridge ring road

So close to home too, how could I?

Bring back the Superprix. Although given all the sockets for barriers are still there along with the Halfords Hairpin it seemingly never went away.

Resurrection of the race in some form is occasionally mooted, and yes, the infrastructure for the hairpin is still very evident. But then it all goes quiet again. The old circuit isn't completely useable any more, in particular the Bristol St/Middleway junction is now having a cycle route added and the temporary (as in moveable by hoist) islands were made permanent some time ago. I can't see it coming back. It's been nearly 30 years now.

[Alderpoint]

Formula E race next year?

[exiled]

Please remember that generic Brexit discussion should only take place in the Brexit topic in Unleashed. This topic should be about the current project involving the M26 only. Please take discussions about the NI border, Swiss borders, etc, to the Brexit topic. The SMT will be monitoring this topic and if necessary further action will be taken.

Reiterating the policy adopted for the discussion of Brexit is the politics of it of itself should only be discussed on the Unleashed brexit thread. The impact on the subject of a thread such as the M26 is the practicality of the implementation.

[Big L]

]He did of course then take the GP away from Silverstone after the dualling and gave it to Brands Hatch. They couldn't make it work so Silverstone got it back again before he then gave it to Donington. They got as far as digging up bits of the track before realising they couldn't make it work so it went back to Silverstone again. Next year is the last GP under the current deal and they haven't agreed a new one yet. Where's it off to next?

Last Grand Prix at Brands was in 86. Was it taken away from Silverstone later than that and given to Brands (in the same way it was given to Donington ie. no actual race) ?

[Chris Bertram]

]He did of course then take the GP away from Silverstone after the dualling and gave it to Brands Hatch. They couldn't make it work so Silverstone got it back again before he then gave it to Donington. They got as far as digging up bits of the track before realising they couldn't make it work so it went back to Silverstone again. Next year is the last GP under the current deal and they haven't agreed a new one yet. Where's it off to next?

Last Grand Prix at Brands was in 86. Was it taken away from Silverstone later than that and given to Brands (in the same way it was given to Donington ie. no actual race) ?

Bernie tried to, but couldn't make it stick.

[roadtester]

A second local MP - former defence secretary Michael Fallon - is now complaining about the Stack/BROCK arrangements:

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-new ... n=sharebar

Also, quite a bit of detail on other arrangements to deal with the post-Brexit flow - e.g. changes at Dover.

Apparently problems are expected regardless of whatever deal is reached.

[Fenlander]

]He did of course then take the GP away from Silverstone after the dualling and gave it to Brands Hatch. They couldn't make it work so Silverstone got it back again before he then gave it to Donington. They got as far as digging up bits of the track before realising they couldn't make it work so it went back to Silverstone again. Next year is the last GP under the current deal and they haven't agreed a new one yet. Where's it off to next?

Last Grand Prix at Brands was in 86. Was it taken away from Silverstone later than that and given to Brands (in the same way it was given to Donington ie. no actual race) ?

99/2000ish. The Donington move was 2008ish. Nicola Foulston was in charge of Brands Harch at the time of its deal, it was all part of her master plan, a lot of which never came to fruition.

[Johnathan404]

Seeing as this thread hasn't been updated for a while, I thought it was worth adding that Kent County Council's official plan (from a strictly roads and not B***** perspective!) is:

- 2000 lorries bound for Folkestone on the M20 eastbound between J8 and J9
- 2000 lorries bound for Folkestone on the M26 eastbound
- 5000 lorries bound for Dover and Ramsgate on Manston Airfield (as per the, ahem, rehearsal a few days ago)

There are also rumours that the M3 will be closed "between Basingstoke and Winchester" to allow Portsmouth to act as an overflow. I would interpret that as J8-9, which as far as these things go would be the least-bad option.

The Department for Transport have denied was ever an option, Hampshire County Council have said they have been considering it.

[Micro The Maniac]

There are also rumours that the M3 will be closed "between Basingstoke and Winchester" to allow Portsmouth to act as an overflow. I would interpret that as J8-9, which as far as these things go would be the least-bad option.

The fun and games on the A33 would be interesting... especially if this coincides with the Winnal Roundabout (A33/A34/M3-J9) improvements!

[Herned]

The fun and games on the A33 would be interesting... especially if this coincides with the Winnal Roundabout (A33/A34/M3-J9) improvements!

That's not even due to start until 2021, and probably never in the event of no deal... but Bullington Cross will be "interesting" if the M3 does get closed

[Bryn666]

The A43 was dualled surprisingly quickly after Bernie Ecclestone threatened to take the British Grand Prix away from Silverstone. For years afterwards, there were signs on that road celebrating the speed and efficiency with which the works were carried out.

We can do great things when we want to.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about whether the refitted M40 J10 was a "great thing" somehow!

It's a bit better now they've got rid of the conflicting slip road but it's still pish.

[Euan]

There are also rumours that the M3 will be closed "between Basingstoke and Winchester" to allow Portsmouth to act as an overflow. I would interpret that as J8-9, which as far as these things go would be the least-bad option.

The Department for Transport have denied was ever an option, Hampshire County Council have said they have been considering it.

It would be good to think that the closure would be between J8 and J9 if it did happen - the A30 through Basingstoke would not be of any use to motorway traffic at all. Similarly, using the A31 as an alternative to the M3 would not be of much use either given that south west of Alton the road is to a much lower standard. Only the A34/A303 would need to be used if the M3 J8-9 was closed, so not too big a detour.

[M4 Cardiff]

There are also rumours that the M3 will be closed "between Basingstoke and Winchester" to allow Portsmouth to act as an overflow. I would interpret that as J8-9, which as far as these things go would be the least-bad option.

The Department for Transport have denied was ever an option, Hampshire County Council have said they have been considering it.

It would be good to think that the closure would be between J8 and J9 if it did happen - the A30 through Basingstoke would not be of any use to motorway traffic at all. Similarly, using the A31 as an alternative to the M3 would not be of much use either given that south west of Alton the road is to a much lower standard. Only the A34/A303 would need to be used if the M3 J8-9 was closed, so not too big a detour.

I think Bullingdon Cross will struggle in such a scenario. However I guess that traffic would split between that route and also A33 and A31 alternative routes

[mapboy]

Only the A34/A303 would need to be used if the M3 J8-9 was closed, so not too big a detour.

It's not the distance I would be worried about, it's more I don't think Bullington Cross would have the capacity to deal with such an increase in turning movements.