M11 extension back on the agenda

[alans]

According to my local paper Grimsby Telegraph an extension to the M11 is now being discussed at high level,or as an alternative, improvements to the A46 ,Newark to the Humber.

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news ... on-2193602

[c2R]

I've not seen the map in the article before which apparently is from the 70s.... It appears to take the route east of Cambridge, which is interesting.

[dkgy]

I did have to double-check that it was a report from today, and not April 1st. The GT are particularly keen on their April Fools' Day jokes.

But indeed, that article is from today. Surely it's pie-in-the-sky?

[jackal]

I can't really see how such a long motorway could be viable just as an access to Humberside and (I suppose) East Lincolnshire. Making the A1 in the Midlands motorway would have much wider benefits.

As discussed elsewhere, there's also a proposal to extend the M11 to the A47, somewhere around Wisbech I think.

[dkgy]

Lets not forget that in the new post-Brexit world, we're going to have to get stuff in via a lot more ports. The stuff from outside the EU that currently comes into Rotterdam, taken off and shipped to the UK via Calais-Dover and the M20 might well need to come into container ports on the East Coast of England - and I'd imagine Immingham has capacity spare. Plus all the other cross-channel traffic will need to be spread a bit more widely around the UK's various RoRo ports if the added red-tape at Calais slows down key imports.

[mikehindsonevans]

Lets not forget that in the new post-Brexit world, we're going to have to get stuff in via a lot more ports. The stuff from outside the EU that currently comes into Rotterdam, taken off and shipped to the UK via Calais-Dover and the M20 might well need to come into container ports on the East Coast of England - and I'd imagine Immingham has capacity spare. Plus all the other cross-channel traffic will need to be spread a bit more widely around the UK's various RoRo ports if the added red-tape at Calais slows down key imports.

Immingham, Felixtowe, London/Thames Gateway - any of the deep-water ports will see post-France utilisations rise.
Felixstowe has the A14;
Thames Gateway would benefit from the Maplin Sands motorway;
Immingham - needs good road links to the rest of the UK

Anyone see a pattern here?

[alans]

Immingam/Grimsby does have decent road links to the rest of UK ie.A160/M180 travelling west ,if you want to travel south/south west,then you soon wish you really didnt have to travel in that direction.The A16 Grimsby to Boston is barely above B road status and the A46 Grimsby/Immingham to Lincoln is also of similar standard,entirely unsuitable for heavy vehicles.
Along the coast of Lincolnshire there is a vast amount of cheaper flat land suitable for industry and housing,maybe this is in the minds of road developers and industrialists,and has been mentioned,a new improved north /south link could also greatly relieve pressure on the A1.

Lets see what happens ,I highly expect this East Coast Motorway scheme/dream to go the way of previous "dreams"

[roadtester]

I quite like the idea of an M11 extension in a fantasy motorway sort of way but I think an upgrade of the A46 between the A1 and Humberside is a much more realistic and likely option.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Midlands Connect has published their vision to upgrade the A46 corridor from Gloucestershire to Lincolnshire

https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/news-and ... r-the-a46/

[KeithW]

Lets not forget that in the new post-Brexit world, we're going to have to get stuff in via a lot more ports. The stuff from outside the EU that currently comes into Rotterdam, taken off and shipped to the UK via Calais-Dover and the M20 might well need to come into container ports on the East Coast of England - and I'd imagine Immingham has capacity spare. Plus all the other cross-channel traffic will need to be spread a bit more widely around the UK's various RoRo ports if the added red-tape at Calais slows down key imports.

There is a well equipped container port on the Humber which is currently being and expanded and further expansion would be cheaper and cause less fuss than extending the M11 and it already has excellent road and rail connections , there is another on Teesside that is more than doubling in size along with improved road and rail connections. Dover was busy before we joined the EU and will continue to be so. The EU industries are unlikely to ignore a market of 65 million people. There is scope to create more container ports if needed. Folkestone harbour comes to mind along with Poole Harbour with some dredging could accomodate larger vessels. It has declined since the 1950's but has recently started expanding again.

[ravenbluemoon]

I don't really see the need for another north-south motorway when the A1 could be suitably upgraded for the 21st century. The east - west links into Lincolnshire and the Wash area are shockingly bad though.

I quite like the idea of an M11 extension in a fantasy motorway sort of way but I think an upgrade of the A46 between the A1 and Humberside is a much more realistic and likely option.

Agreed, get the A46 up to a high quality D2 standard all the way to Grimsby, and the A15 to a similar standard north of Lincoln to serve traffic for the Humber Bridge/Hull. Not sure what the A15 is like south of Lincoln so can't comment. The A17 would be a good choice to dual next - given a lot of the agriculture, food production and warehousing in the Fens, they need decent access to the rest of the country.

[Steven]

It's worth pointing out again that the so-called East Coast Motorway was never "on the cards" - it was never any more official than the ABD's POLO.

[KeithW]

Immingam/Grimsby does have decent road links to the rest of UK ie.A160/M180 travelling west ,if you want to travel south/south west,then you soon wish you really didnt have to travel in that direction.The A16 Grimsby to Boston is barely above B road status and the A46 Grimsby/Immingham to Lincoln is also of similar standard,entirely unsuitable for heavy vehicles.
Along the coast of Lincolnshire there is a vast amount of cheaper flat land suitable for industry and housing,maybe this is in the minds of road developers and industrialists,and has been mentioned,a new improved north /south link could also greatly relieve pressure on the A1.

Lets see what happens ,I highly expect this East Coast Motorway scheme/dream to go the way of previous "dreams"

Indeed lets do a sanity check shall we.

London Grimsby by shortest route 115 miles

Cost of new A14 - approx £75 million per mile if we include improvement of existing roads which gives an estimated cost on that basis of £8.6 billion or between 1/3 and 1/4 of the entire RIS 2 budget. Given that this scheme was ruled out under Roads for Prosperity its not going to happen people. Here is what the minister said when this unquiet spirit was last summoned in 1992.

Mr. Moss: Will my right hon. Friend confirm that if the go-ahead is given for the east coast motorway a comprehensive environmental impact assessment will be undertaken to measure its impact on the unique drainage of the Fens area of my constituency? On the dualling of the A47, will he confirm, if not today then later, that his 570 Department is investigating possible lines of routes both north and south of the River Neve in the vicinity of Wisbech?

Mr. MacGregor: The Government have no plans for an east coast motorway. As my hon. Friend will know, that plan was put forward by a consortium of local authorities and private contractors. If at any point—I make it clear that I do not envisage anything—such a scheme were proposed, it would be subject to the full environmental impact assessment that we require of all schemes. My hon. Friend will know that we plan to make a dual carriageway of the whole of the A47 from Peterborough to Great Yarmouth. I know how widely welcomed that is by all road users in Norfolk, my county. I am not aware of the scheme to which he referred, but if I may I shall look into it and write to him.

This has come up several times on Sabre - see this from over a decade ago
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16057&hilit=M11+extension

A far more practical plan would be to lobby for the completion of dualling the A47 between Norwich and Peterborough and dual the A17 between Kings Lynn and Newark. Call them Expressways if it makes you happy but avoid the M word as that brings the Nimby's curse upon you

[c2R]

It's worth pointing out again that the so-called East Coast Motorway was never "on the cards" - it was never any more official than the ABD's POLO.

The question I've got though, is where's the map in the article from - it's certainly fairly official looking...

[alans]

c2R
I think the map will have come from here
http://motorwayarchive.ihtservices.co.u ... stmway.htm


Get the A46 Grimsby to Lincoln and the A15 M180 to Lincoln up to a decent standard and I think that should be enough,not forgetting of course A1/A46 junction plus dualling of Newark bypass and full dualling of Lincoln western bypass

[Robert Kilcoyne]

I would upgrade the A46 between Newark and Lincoln, and the A15 between Lincoln and the M180 to full HQD2. The A15 would be much easier to upgrade than the A46 northeast of Lincoln as the A15 has a much straighter alignment across fairly level terrain whereas there is a steep hill on the A46 near Caistor where that road crosses the Lincolnshire Wolds. The A46 / A15 could then become the main route to Grimsby and Immingham from the A1. The A47 should be full dual carriageway between Peterborough and Norwich so that traffic from the North East would not use the overloaded A14 past Huntingdon.

I would not extend the M11 beyond Cambridge. It would make more sense to upgrade the A1 between Peterborough and Blyth to full HQD2 (even HQD3). Also, any extension of the existing M11 beyond Cambridge would require further remodelling of the already very complex Girton Interchange unless the extension was built on a new alignment east of the city, and it would make more sense to remove the remaining at grade junctions on the A11 between Stump Cross and Norwich.

[wrinkly]

Some other previous threads on this (the map appears on the first page of the first one):

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21303&hilit=east+coast+motorway

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27221&hilit=east+coast+motorway

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14248&hilit=east+coast+motorway

[danfw194]

Fully upgrading the A1 to Motorway standard should take precedence over anything like this.

[Chris56000]

Hi!

I agree that upgrading the A17, A46 and A47 is far more realistic than a whole new M11 East Coast Motorway in a new route corridor, but any new construction should along the above routes should be full expressway with the signage and technology improvements included from the start to enable Motorway Regulations to be implemented either from the outset or soon afterwards as further sections are opened.

Chris Williams

[bart]

If that gets built, and presumably will have several New Towns along the route to ease the housing crisis, then you will also need to upgrade the east-west links like the A17 because some people (and goods) in those areas are going to want to go to places other than London and Grimsby.