Westway Speed Limit - was it ever 70mph?

[MFB]

I recently drove on the A40 Westway having not gone over the route for many years and was appalled to discover it has a 40mph speed limit! When did this happen? It seems totally farcical driving along a motorway standard road which usually flows relatively freely at 40mph - who thought this up and why?

I know it was downgraded from motorway status but was wondering if the original speed limit was ever 70mph?

[mikehindsonevans]

I recently drove on the A40 Westway having not gone over the route for many years and was appalled to discover it has a 40mph speed limit! When did this happen? It seems totally farcical driving along a motorway standard road which usually flows relatively freely at 40mph - who thought this up and why?

I know it was downgraded from motorway status but was wondering if the original speed limit was ever 70mph?

Doesn't this repeat a thread from 2012?

[A303Chris]

I recently drove on the A40 Westway having not gone over the route for many years and was appalled to discover it has a 40mph speed limit! When did this happen? It seems totally farcical driving along a motorway standard road which usually flows relatively freely at 40mph - who thought this up and why?

I know it was downgraded from motorway status but was wondering if the original speed limit was ever 70mph?

When opened it was 60mph, which seem sensible for an elevated road sandwiched between 40mph and 30mph sections. The two lane section at the Paddington end was 50mph. When the Mayor was set up with his devolouted powers in 1999, TfL reduced it to 50mph, then about 10 years ago it became 40mph after a period of time given defective street lighting columns and for safety it was reduced to 30mph. It has nothing to do with safety but air quality and TfL throttling back traffic flows to slow down trips into the centre.

[wrinkly]

Doesn't this repeat a thread from 2012?

To be specific, this one:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29744&p=619823

[Chris5156]

I recently drove on the A40 Westway having not gone over the route for many years and was appalled to discover it has a 40mph speed limit! When did this happen? It seems totally farcical driving along a motorway standard road which usually flows relatively freely at 40mph - who thought this up and why?

I know it was downgraded from motorway status but was wondering if the original speed limit was ever 70mph?

As others have said, it has a design speed of 60mph and the limit was never higher than that.

It has nothing to do with safety but air quality and TfL throttling back traffic flows to slow down trips into the centre.

It don't think it has anything to do with throttling traffic flows (if it did, it would surely only apply eastbound, and in any case it makes no different whatsoever to the fact the eastern end is an all-day traffic jam). It has everything to do with the state of the elevated road structure. It's in an appalling state and the reduced limit was introduced to reduce vibration from vehicles passing over the expansion joints and therefore limit further damage to the structure.

Actual repair work to bring it back to full strength is not something TfL have the budget for.

[ravenbluemoon]

Actual repair work to bring it back to full strength is not something TfL have the budget for.

I get the feeling that TFL are going to have a lot of trouble in the future. From what I've been told, the Chiswick flyover isn't in a good state, the Hammersmith flyover is on borrowed time, and I'm not sure how much life is left in the Meccano bridge at Hogarth (it looked dodgy as hell when I had to walk underneath it!). And that's just considering the areas I know in West London, there's bound to be more bridges and viaducts of that vintage that'll become life expired soon, moreso if TFL haven't got the money/will to maintain them.

[ChrisH]

Actual repair work to bring it back to full strength is not something TfL have the budget for.

I get the feeling that TFL are going to have a lot of trouble in the future. From what I've been told, the Chiswick flyover isn't in a good state, the Hammersmith flyover is on borrowed time, and I'm not sure how much life is left in the Meccano bridge at Hogarth (it looked dodgy as hell when I had to walk underneath it!). And that's just considering the areas I know in West London, there's bound to be more bridges and viaducts of that vintage that'll become life expired soon, moreso if TFL haven't got the money/will to maintain them.

This is a very perceptive comment.

[Chris5156]

Actual repair work to bring it back to full strength is not something TfL have the budget for.

I get the feeling that TFL are going to have a lot of trouble in the future. From what I've been told, the Chiswick flyover isn't in a good state, the Hammersmith flyover is on borrowed time, and I'm not sure how much life is left in the Meccano bridge at Hogarth (it looked dodgy as hell when I had to walk underneath it!). And that's just considering the areas I know in West London, there's bound to be more bridges and viaducts of that vintage that'll become life expired soon, moreso if TFL haven't got the money/will to maintain them.

The only glimmer of hope for TfL is that the Chiswick Flyover is Highways England's problem. The others are trouble in the making.

[Bryn666]

TfL know the road network is stuffed and beyond repairs they're going to struggle to get support for capacity upgrades.

But then again I would think who willingly lives in London, isn't there purely because of their job, and insists on driving everywhere in the metropolis to be part of a very small club indeed.

[Berk]

TfL know the road network is stuffed and beyond repairs they're going to struggle to get support for capacity upgrades.

But then again I would think who willingly lives in London, isn't there purely because of their job, and insists on driving everywhere in the metropolis to be part of a very small club indeed.

Could substitute London for Manchester, really. Or any big city.

If the public transport connectivity isn’t there, or is too far away - you drive.

What I would be interested to know, if there’s like a ‘managed decline’ in place for aging assets like Westway, Ray Hall viaduct etc. - so their condition deteriorates to the point highway authorities will need government help for replacements (HE to the rescue again).

[Steven]

Ray Hall is Trunk anyway so whatever happens it's Highways England's problem.

[Berk]

Ray Hall is Trunk anyway so whatever happens it's Highways England's problem.

I know, I was trying (but failing) to think of an appropriate analogy. But there must be similar structures in Birmingham itself.

And even HE will need their own strategy.

[nowster]

But then again I would think who willingly lives in London, isn't there purely because of their job, and insists on driving everywhere in the metropolis to be part of a very small club indeed.

What about movement of goods and service providers?

[Chris Bertram]

Ray Hall is Trunk anyway so whatever happens it's Highways England's problem.

I know, I was trying (but failing) to think of an appropriate analogy. But there must be similar structures in Birmingham itself.

And even HE will need their own strategy.

In Birmingham, there's the Lancaster Circus flyover which carries A38 from the direction of the Aston Expressway to the tunnels of the Queensway. It must be getting on for 50 years old now. No other high level structures from the inner ring road survive since Masshouse Circus was demolished. And the Camp Hill flyover, a "meccano" structure like the Hogarth flyover, is now long gone, though plenty of photographic evidence survives.

[Berk]

But then again I would think who willingly lives in London, isn't there purely because of their job, and insists on driving everywhere in the metropolis to be part of a very small club indeed.

What about movement of goods and service providers?

Or horror of horrors, ambulances, the fire brigade, and the police. Or worse still, Royal Mail, BT, and the other utility networks.

All the above (not sure about emergency services) are still expected to pay the C & T charges in London.

And despite what you might think, I’d still class private hire, and hackney cabs as public transport. In theory, they can be shared too.

[PhilC]

Ray Hall is Trunk anyway so whatever happens it's Highways England's problem.

I know, I was trying (but failing) to think of an appropriate analogy. But there must be similar structures in Birmingham itself.

And even HE will need their own strategy.

In Birmingham, there's the Lancaster Circus flyover which carries A38 from the direction of the Aston Expressway to the tunnels of the Queensway. It must be getting on for 50 years old now. No other high level structures from the inner ring road survive since Masshouse Circus was demolished. And the Camp Hill flyover, a "meccano" structure like the Hogarth flyover, is now long gone, though plenty of photographic evidence survives.

We also have the Hockley flyover on what used to be the A41 and the underpasses and flyovers along the A34 Birchfield Road, all of which must be around 50 years old. Right on the boundary with Worcestershire we have the A38 Rubery by-pass. That's been there since the early 1960s as a feeder to the M5. The elevated section is quite narrow and has some sharp bends heading towards Birmingham, yet it is still NSL.

[IAN]

What I can never get my head round is why it was that, in the 60's and 70's when Britain's economy was in a mess and Britain was so bankrupt by the mid 70's we had to ask the IMF for a loan, but we still managed to fund a huge amount of fantastic road schemes compared to the pitiful amount of new build construction today.

(I take into account in the above statement that environmental factors were less of an issue then).

Ian (M5 Driver)

[Berk]

Maybe they’d all been budgeted for, and started construction??

The loan was to pay off projects like these...

[Robunos]

> and the underpasses and flyovers along the A34 Birchfield Road, all of which must be around 50 years old.
Birmingham City Council want to demolish the Birchfield Road Flyover, fill in the underpass, and replace it all with a 'signalised junction'. AFAIK it's all to do with making the area look pretty for the 2022 Commonwealth Games (the athletes' villages is going where the old college is now) . . .

[Herned]

What I can never get my head round is why it was that, in the 60's and 70's when Britain's economy was in a mess and Britain was so bankrupt by the mid 70's we had to ask the IMF for a loan, but we still managed to fund a huge amount of fantastic road schemes compared to the pitiful amount of new build construction today.

(I take into account in the above statement that environmental factors were less of an issue then).

Ian (M5 Driver)

Fundamentally, in the 1970s people dropped dead a few years after retiring, if not before! Now people are expected to live 20+ years past retirement and have lots of expensive healthcare that didn't exist then. Nowadays getting on for half of all government expenditure is on pensions and end-of-life care