After the A9 & A96

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Nwallace
Member
Posts: 4239
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 22:42
Location: Dundee

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Nwallace »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:13 Dualling all of the A1 to the English border, tied in with dualling the A1 to Morpeth. It's awful that most of Edinburgh's links with England are S2, with the A1 turning from a decent D2 to an old fashioned S2 at Dunbar.
Another one, Ayr by pass should be D2, it's odd that the A77 suddenly turns into an S2 when it reaches the Ayr by pass. Then as well on this road of two halves, by passes for Maybole and Girvan.
Controversial statement time...
It would make more sense to dual the A68 as the most direct route to Newcastle.
From Edinburgh the A1's importance is only really for connecting East Lothian to the capital and for linking Berwick to it's shire.
Altnabreac
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:50

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Altnabreac »

Nwallace wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 17:38
Glenn A wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:13 Dualling all of the A1 to the English border, tied in with dualling the A1 to Morpeth. It's awful that most of Edinburgh's links with England are S2, with the A1 turning from a decent D2 to an old fashioned S2 at Dunbar.
Another one, Ayr by pass should be D2, it's odd that the A77 suddenly turns into an S2 when it reaches the Ayr by pass. Then as well on this road of two halves, by passes for Maybole and Girvan.
Controversial statement time...
It would make more sense to dual the A68 as the most direct route to Newcastle.
From Edinburgh the A1's importance is only really for connecting East Lothian to the capital and for linking Berwick to it's shire.
Wrong answer:
Dalkeith - Ponteland is 89 miles of which none is dualled
Dunbar - Ellingham is 52 miles of which about 10 miles is already dualled

A1 dualling Felton - Morpeth would need doing anyway even if the A68 were fully dualled.

So although you end up with a slightly shorter route via the A68 it has cost you twice as much money, is less weatherproof and has much greater environmental impact through the centre of the national park.
User avatar
Euan
Member
Posts: 1851
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 07:59
Location: North Ayrshire

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Euan »

Nwallace wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 17:38
Glenn A wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:13 Dualling all of the A1 to the English border, tied in with dualling the A1 to Morpeth. It's awful that most of Edinburgh's links with England are S2, with the A1 turning from a decent D2 to an old fashioned S2 at Dunbar.
Another one, Ayr by pass should be D2, it's odd that the A77 suddenly turns into an S2 when it reaches the Ayr by pass. Then as well on this road of two halves, by passes for Maybole and Girvan.
Controversial statement time...
It would make more sense to dual the A68 as the most direct route to Newcastle.
From Edinburgh the A1's importance is only really for connecting East Lothian to the capital and for linking Berwick to it's shire.
If we were starting from scratch then dualling the A68/A696 between Edinburgh and Newcastle would be the preferred option rather than the A1, but as things stand the A1 is probably more likely to be upgraded given that much of it is dualled already whereas only a short stretch of the A68/A696 route is dualled at Newcastle. It was a mistake to detrunk the route through Northumberland when it is the direct route between Edinburgh and Newcastle and also because of the fact that on the Scottish side it is a trunk road.
E-roads, M-roads, A-roads, N-roads, B-roads, R-roads, C-roads, L-roads, U-roads, footpaths
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26208
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Owain »

Euan wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 18:05
Nwallace wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 17:38
Glenn A wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:13 Dualling all of the A1 to the English border, tied in with dualling the A1 to Morpeth. It's awful that most of Edinburgh's links with England are S2, with the A1 turning from a decent D2 to an old fashioned S2 at Dunbar.
Another one, Ayr by pass should be D2, it's odd that the A77 suddenly turns into an S2 when it reaches the Ayr by pass. Then as well on this road of two halves, by passes for Maybole and Girvan.
Controversial statement time...
It would make more sense to dual the A68 as the most direct route to Newcastle.
From Edinburgh the A1's importance is only really for connecting East Lothian to the capital and for linking Berwick to it's shire.
If we were starting from scratch then dualling the A68/A696 between Edinburgh and Newcastle would be the preferred option rather than the A1, but as things stand the A1 is probably more likely to be upgraded given that much of it is dualled already whereas only a short stretch of the A68/A696 route is dualled at Newcastle. It was a mistake to detrunk the route through Northumberland when it is the direct route between Edinburgh and Newcastle and also because of the fact that on the Scottish side it is a trunk road.
I'd like to see a motorway following the A68-A696 route, but...

Of the two, most of the A1 could probably be dualled by simply building another carriageway alongside the existing one, which is already good enough for driving at speed.

I doubt the same could be done with the A68-A696 which - although being a fun drive - is of pretty poor quality in many places. There's a rise at one point where I thought the car was going to take off .... there isn't anything like that on the A1!
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
Robert Kilcoyne
Member
Posts: 966
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:41
Location: Birmingham

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

Owain wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 18:12 I'd like to see a motorway following the A68-A696 route, but...

Of the two, most of the A1 could probably be dualled by simply building another carriageway alongside the existing one, which is already good enough for driving at speed.
It should be relatively straightforward to dual the current S2 A1, with two exceptions. The main issue would be the section between the Scottish border at Marshall Meadows and the turnoff for Burnmouth, where the A1 runs on a ledge above steep slopes leading down to the East Coast Main Line and the North Sea. That section would have to be dualled offline, with the current S2 A1 being retained for local access to Lamberton and Burnmouth. Online dualling of the A1 may also be difficult at Grantshouse as the current S2 is sandwiched between the village and the ECML.
Glenn A
Member
Posts: 9776
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 19:31
Location: Cumbria

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Glenn A »

Euan wrote: Mon Dec 31, 2018 14:40
Altnabreac wrote: Mon Dec 31, 2018 09:21
Glenn A wrote: Sun Dec 30, 2018 17:50

Thankyou.
I did read above about a by pass in a tunnel for Langholm, nice idea and would look brilliant, but on cost grounds, it would be like another Millenium Dome, considering the southern section of the A7 is relatively quiet. I'd advocate a by pass of Selkirk and Galashiels, as this is where the A7 become noticeably busier and the two towns are close together. Hawick would be very difficult due to the hills, and isn't particularly busy, and has a ring road of sorts that avoids the town centre.
Galashiels is already bypassed as far as the Trunk Roads authority is concerned as the strategic route is to East to the A68. Selkirk is the only realistic prospect of a bypass on the A7.
Indeed and in fact driving to Hawick or Langholm from Edinburgh the recommended route is via the A68 followed by the A698 to Hawick, avoiding the A7 in Galashiels completely. Even for Galashiels or Selkirk the journey time difference between the A7 and the A68 is negligible. For much of its length the A7 is certainly more of a local road as long distance traffic from Edinburgh would take the A702/A74(M)/M6 route to Carlisle and would cut across from the A68 to reach many of the border towns that are on the A7, so it is unlikely that bypasses along the A7 would be a very high priority.
The A7 is advertised more like a tourist route than a major route from Carlisle to Edinburgh, and there is no indication at Greymoorhill that it is the direct route to Edinburgh as traffic is advised to use the motorway. South of Selkirk, traffic volumes on the A7 are light, with congestion rare, and the two problematic sections at Canonbie and Auchenrivock have long since been by passed. Also the A7 remains the only Ax road in Britain to have remained largely unaltered in the last 50 years, with the only significant improvements occuring near the English border and near the Edinburgh southern by pass.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19201
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by KeithW »

Nwallace wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 17:38 Controversial statement time...
It would make more sense to dual the A68 as the most direct route to Newcastle.
From Edinburgh the A1's importance is only really for connecting East Lothian to the capital and for linking Berwick to it's shire.
Much as I love the A68 dualling it would be a massively expensive undertaking especially from Byrness north due to the terrain and the fact that it passes through sizable settlements such as Jedburgh, Lauder etc and even then its not going to be a reliable all weather road due to the altitude. Stick to the A1 for HGV's where most major towns have already been bypassed and dualling would be much cheaper.
Glenn A
Member
Posts: 9776
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 19:31
Location: Cumbria

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Glenn A »

KeithW wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 20:37
Nwallace wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 17:38 Controversial statement time...
It would make more sense to dual the A68 as the most direct route to Newcastle.
From Edinburgh the A1's importance is only really for connecting East Lothian to the capital and for linking Berwick to it's shire.
Much as I love the A68 dualling it would be a massively expensive undertaking especially from Byrness north due to the terrain and the fact that it passes through sizable settlements such as Jedburgh, Lauder etc and even then its not going to be a reliable all weather road due to the altitude. Stick to the A1 for HGV's where most major towns have already been bypassed and dualling would be much cheaper.
Like the A7, the A68 remains mostly unmodernised since the sixties, except near Edinburgh, where traffic volumes are highest, and mostly remains a lightly trafficked road. Similarly the A696 north of Ponteland doesn't attract a huge amount of traffic, so has remained largely unaltered. HGVs from Edinburgh to Newcastle prefer the A1 in winter as it's less prone to snow, and this is where most improvements have occured.
Nwallace
Member
Posts: 4239
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 22:42
Location: Dundee

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Nwallace »

I did say Controversial statement :stir:
:D

It's a non-starter for the reasons given!
User avatar
orudge
Site Manager
Posts: 8260
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 12:23
Location: Banchory
Contact:

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by orudge »

Apparently the A90 north of Ellon will be included in STPR2:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... de-review/

Of course, a Dundee bypass was included in STPR1 and is yet to materialise in any way, but if it’s at least being considered for upgrade, then that’s something.
User avatar
Euan
Member
Posts: 1851
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 07:59
Location: North Ayrshire

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Euan »

It's no surprise given that the A90 north of Aberdeen will have seen increased levels of traffic since the completion of the AWPR. Let's hope that the A90 does soon get upgraded as far as Peterhead as has been recommended. Who knows? That might even be followed by demand to improve the A952 shortcut to Fraserburgh.
E-roads, M-roads, A-roads, N-roads, B-roads, R-roads, C-roads, L-roads, U-roads, footpaths
clc
Member
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 22:34

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by clc »

It seems the A890 Balnacra to Lair scheme isn’t being taken forward. Appendix 4:-

https://www.highland.gov.uk/download/me ... monitoring

I can’t see the A890 being trunked any time soon.
User avatar
roadtester
Member
Posts: 31474
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 18:05
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by roadtester »

orudge wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 09:26 Of course, a Dundee bypass was included in STPR1 and is yet to materialise in any way, but if it’s at least being considered for upgrade, then that’s something.
I'd have thought that would be high on the list of obvious priorities once the programme has digested the various current schemes.

I had quite a delay last time I went that way.
Electrophorus Electricus

Check out #davidsdailycar on Mastodon
paully
Member
Posts: 1196
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:48
Location: Perth

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by paully »

Euan wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 21:15 It's no surprise given that the A90 north of Aberdeen will have seen increased levels of traffic since the completion of the AWPR. Let's hope that the A90 does soon get upgraded as far as Peterhead as has been recommended. Who knows? That might even be followed by demand to improve the A952 shortcut to Fraserburgh.
If it gets upgraded at all I can't see the need for it to be any further than the Toll of Birness. I'd also like to see Toll of Birness converted to a roundabout. It's a busy junction and it's a horrible layout.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19201
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by KeithW »

Nwallace wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 17:38 Controversial statement time...
It would make more sense to dual the A68 as the most direct route to Newcastle.
From Edinburgh the A1's importance is only really for connecting East Lothian to the capital and for linking Berwick to it's shire.
I disagree mainly because it would be much more expensive and would be liable to winter blockages especially if you have a large number of HGV's on the route. The English side is doable up until Carter Bar but north of the border is a different story. The 58 miles to Edinburgh not only includes some challenging terrain but would require bypasses of Jedburgh, St Boswells, Earlston, Lauder and Pathhead. The remaining S2 sections of A1 would be much easier to dual and more resilient. For HGV traffic heading from Northern England the most dependable route to just about anywhere in Scotland except Edinburgh is the A66/M6/A74(M)/M74. This will be even more attractive once the remaining S2 sections of the A66 have been dualled.

As an aside the most direct route from Newcastle is the A696/A68
Nwallace
Member
Posts: 4239
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 22:42
Location: Dundee

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Nwallace »

I keep forgetting about the TOTSO at Otterburn.

I've been using the A68 to get to Ponteland recently for a few cycle events as I've been borrowing a car that's charged per mile; the saving is 25 miles.
£6.50 cheaper!
B9127
Member
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 20:45
Location: Angus Scotland

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by B9127 »

I would suggest that they need to bring the Dundee Northern Bypass earlier in programme as once the two pedestrian crossing's on the Kingsway are switched on the hold ups will be horrendous .The A1 needs dualled to the border as it is an all weather route and the A75 needs various bypasses but design them for future dualling. The A92 through Fife needs attention again designed for future DC,
Motorways travelled 2019 - M90 - M9 - M80 - M8 -M77 - M73 -A74(M) -M6-M42-M40 -A404(M) - M4 - M5 -M50 -M56 much better so far than last year
scott125
Member
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 14:50

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by scott125 »

Nwallace wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 21:04 I keep forgetting about the TOTSO at Otterburn.

I've been using the A68 to get to Ponteland recently for a few cycle events as I've been borrowing a car that's charged per mile; the saving is 25 miles.
£6.50 cheaper!
Is that co wheels car hire thing ?
Nwallace
Member
Posts: 4239
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 22:42
Location: Dundee

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by Nwallace »

scott125 wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:56
Nwallace wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 21:04 I keep forgetting about the TOTSO at Otterburn.

I've been using the A68 to get to Ponteland recently for a few cycle events as I've been borrowing a car that's charged per mile; the saving is 25 miles.
£6.50 cheaper!
Is that co wheels car hire thing ?
nah, personal mileage on dad's work car.
cb a1
Member
Posts: 5361
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 07:30

Re: After the A9 & A96

Post by cb a1 »

B9127 wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 22:09once the two pedestrian crossing's on the Kingsway are switched on the hold ups will be horrendous.
They won't have any net effect on vehicle travel times as the capacity constraint in that area are the signals at Forfar Road.

They will however, make it far safer for people to get to and from Caird Park.
Education makes the wise slightly wiser, but it makes the fool vastly more dangerous. N. Taleb
We tend to demand impossible standards of proof from our opponents but accept any old rubbish to support our beliefs.
The human paradox that is common sense
The Backfire Effect
Post Reply