After the A9 & A96

[djw1981]

Politically, the SNP has recently gained a lot of support in traditional lib dem and tory areas of Highland and NEScotland. Some of those candidates were elected on a platform of securing faster and more reliable links between the main population centres (the 7 cities links for trains and roads). Soon there will be a DC road to each of the 7 cities and between most of them.

Labour knew it had little chance in these areas and thus the previous administrations had perhaps focussed spending closer to their voter base.

Since 1999 we have had

M77 extension,
M80 joined up
A876 Clacks bridge
M74 extension
M74/M8/M73 / A 725 upgrade works.
M90 QC
A9 dualling
A96 upgrade

So there has been a spread across the zones, though latterly favouring the 9 zone.

[roadtester]

Also, it would probably be wrong to see M90/QC as favouring the 9 zone when a replacement for the old bridge seemed quite urgent - it was bound to work its way to the top of the list regardless of other emphases.

[wrinkly]

2) The A702 - this always feels a bit “almost but not quite”. How about getting it up to motorway standard, most obviously by grade-separating Sheriffhall?

Do you mean the A720? The A702 doesn't touch Sheriffhall. Also there's already a scheme to grade separate Sheriffhall:

https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects ... oundabout/

Also, I wonder if the SNP government is a bit reluctant to improve cross-border links in comparison with links within Scotland - there doesn’t seem to be much enthusiasm for extending the reopened Borders rail line to Carlisle, for example.

Beyond Hawick it has worse economics than many other rail reopening schemes that have been proposed. It would be very slow for end-to-end traffic and there's miles of no population.

[roadtester]

2) The A702 - this always feels a bit “almost but not quite”. How about getting it up to motorway standard, most obviously by grade-separating Sheriffhall?

Do you mean the A720? The A702 doesn't touch Sheriffhall. Also there's already a scheme to grade separate Sheriffhall:

https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects ... oundabout/

Also, I wonder if the SNP government is a bit reluctant to improve cross-border links in comparison with links within Scotland - there doesn’t seem to be much enthusiasm for extending the reopened Borders rail line to Carlisle, for example.

Beyond Hawick it has worse economics than many other rail reopening schemes that have been proposed. It would be very slow for end-to-end traffic and there's miles of no population.

Ah yes, 720, obvs.

[wrinkly]

The M74-M8 fastlink sounds very similar to a proposal from a long time ago which would have seen a much faster connection to Edinburgh.

That was obviously intentional on Altnabreac's part. He used the same name and the same route description.

I think it would have been in late 1997 or early 1998 that I wrote the Scheme Classification Report (requirement of SH1/97) for Fastlink. No idea why it never progressed beyond that as I got given another major project which pretty much took up all of my next three years.

It was dropped in the Strategic Roads Review (November 1999 I think) following the creation of the Scottish Parliament and Executive. I probably still have a copy of the document on paper somewhere. I've been trying just now to find a copy online but no luck so far.

[Chris Bertram]

Also, I wonder if the SNP government is a bit reluctant to improve cross-border links in comparison with links within Scotland - there doesn’t seem to be much enthusiasm for extending the reopened Borders rail line to Carlisle, for example.

To be fair, the old Waverley line to Carlisle crossed some very challenging terrain with very few people to serve. South of Hawick, it diverged from the A7, taking a more easterly route, and missed most of the towns and villages on the way - and even the A7 corridor is pretty empty between Hawick and Langholm. Making an economic case for anything more than an extension to Hawick would be tricky, and there are problems even with that as a new road has taken over the old alignment between Tweedbank and Melrose, and there may have been some construction on the route in Newtown St Boswells. Obviously that's not a total showstopper, but it doesn't make it any easier. However, Hawick would definitely benefit from the improved transport links - it's a fine looking town, but a close check of the high street reveals that it's on its uppers to some extent. The SNP has been doing quite well here lately, but if it wants to retain loyalty then committing to spending a few poonds would do it no harm.

I agree in terms of the terrain and the places along the route but it’s also to do with opening up a whole new cross-border link of wider significance that could serve a lot more traffic as well.

That said, I’m not sure the bit that’s already be done would be up to the job in terms of capacity etc. if it became part of a major through route.

That would also be an issue. More passing loops could be added if complete dualling is out of the question. And there could also be a branch to Jedburgh, alternating with Hawick as a terminal destination.

[wrinkly]

There has also been talk of going to Berwick instead of Carlisle. But I think any extension beyond Hawick is very unlikely.

[C83]

Rosyth Bypass from A823(M) to A985. Also on the A985, a Crombie bypass.

M8 D3M would be good, priority J2-4.
A1 is only worth doing if England also dual their section.

[B9127]

Re M74/M8 Fastlink why would anyone want to hurry to Edinburgh

[Berk]

Can anyone explain what the Fastlink was??

[wrinkly]

Can anyone explain what the Fastlink was??

As stated in item 2 of Altnabreac's post midway down the previous page, it would have been a grade separated dual carriageway from M74 J12 to M8 J4, thus providing a route from Carlisle to Edinburgh, east central Scotland, the FRB and Fife.

There were rumours it would have been a motorway and known as M7. (At the time it was planned it was still official policy that the A74(M) and M74 would become M6 on completion.)

[Berk]

Can anyone explain what the Fastlink was??

As stated in item 2 of Altnabreac's post midway down the previous page, it would have been a grade separated dual carriageway from M74 J12 to M8 J4, thus providing a route from Carlisle to Edinburgh, east central Scotland, the FRB and Fife.

There were rumours it would have been a motorway and known as M7. (At the time it was planned it was still official policy that the A74(M) and M74 would become M6 on completion.)

Thanks, the crucial details were missing. Not that unlike the A702 proposals, then ??

[clc]

With the exception of Inverness - Nairn I’m not sure A96 dualling should be a higher priority than many of the schemes mentioned above. A change of administration at Holyrood will probably result in most of it being cancelled anyway.

Fastlink was rejected in the STPR, I don’t expect to see it STPR 2.

My priorities would be:-

Dundee Bypass.
Dualling/grade separation around Ayr.
Grade separating Kier, Broxburn and Inveralmond roundabouts.
Closing all gaps on A9 and A90.

[KeithW]

That would also be an issue. More passing loops could be added if complete dualling is out of the question. And there could also be a branch to Jedburgh, alternating with Hawick as a terminal destination.

A branch to Jedburgh would be an expensive project. The town lies in the river valley and heading towards Hawick directly is a steep climb up past the castle.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.47539 ... !1e4?hl=en

There was a railway to Jedburgh but it followed the river valleys to Roxburgh and joined the Kelso Line which ran between Berwick and St Boswells. In practical terms you would have to reopen the Kelso Railway between Kelso and St Boswells where it joins the old Waverley Line.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _lines.png

Unlike the Waverley line I believe the track right of way no longer exists. It ran alongside the A698 between the River and the Road which I suspect has been widened in the interim,
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.60995 ... !1e4?hl=en

I was on holiday in the Kelso area when they were getting ready to reopen the Borders Railway so I had a look at the locations. Where the railway line and station used to be is now an industrial estate and retail area but you can still see the trackbed and cutting to the west.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Kelso ... !1e4?hl=en

The Jedburgh branch closed to passengers in 1948 and the Kelso line did the same in 1955. Both remained open for industrial traffic and the occasional excursion train until 1964 but I believe service was infrequent.

The Carlisle branch was never very heavily trafficked until the opening of the Settle and Carlisle line when it became a main line carrying fast freight and passenger services to Edinburgh so I suppose it might make an alternative to the overloaded East and West Coast main lines. For the most part the right of way and associated engineering works are intact and clearly visible on Google Aerial View.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Kelso ... !1e4?hl=en

[Burns]

As I've always said to anyone wanting to see Hawick to Carlisle re-open: Good luck with Whitrope.

[Euan]

I'm not sure how it was calculated, but wasn't Hawick at one point the "largest town farthest from a train station" in potentially the whole of Britain? Certainly in Scotland it would have been.

[KeithW]

As I've always said to anyone wanting to see Hawick to Carlisle re-open: Good luck with Whitrope.

As I understand it the collapse at the southern tunnel portal is nothing new and is repairable. Given modern rock bolting techniques I doubt it would be a major obstacle compared with raising the money to replace everything else.

[Altnabreac]

Can anyone explain what the Fastlink was??

As stated in item 2 of Altnabreac's post midway down the previous page, it would have been a grade separated dual carriageway from M74 J12 to M8 J4, thus providing a route from Carlisle to Edinburgh, east central Scotland, the FRB and Fife.

There were rumours it would have been a motorway and known as M7. (At the time it was planned it was still official policy that the A74(M) and M74 would become M6 on completion.)

Thanks, the crucial details were missing. Not that unlike the A702 proposals, then ??

Yes effectively Fastlink (known as M6-M8 Fastlink in the 90s and called M74-M8 Fastlink by me) is an alternative to dualling or upgrading the A702.

The advantages of Fastlink over the A702 corridor are:

• Shorter distance (and thus cheaper) circa 25 miles rather than 35-40 miles);
• Better connection to Fife / Dundee / Aberdeen from the south without overloading City bypass;
• Better connection to Falkirk / Grangemouth via the A801;
• Improved cross border connections from South Lanarkshire and West Lothian;
• Less environmentally sensitive route than A702, dualling in the Pentland Hills regional park would be difficult to achieve;
• Relatively cheap land uses etc on the proposed route.

Advantages of the A702 corridor are:

• Slightly shorter route from Abington to Central Edinburgh 40 miles vs 50 miles via Fastlink;
• Even more distance saving for East Edinburgh / Midlothian / East Lothian.

Overall Fastlink definitely seems the better value proposal. Would probably need to be complemented by A801 Avon Gorge upgrade and M8 J4-J2 upgrade to 3 lanes.

[Euan]

My priorities would be:-

Dundee Bypass.
Dualling/grade separation around Ayr.
Grade separating Kier, Broxburn and Inveralmond roundabouts.
Closing all gaps on A9 and A90.

The roundabouts at Perth can quite often see long tailbacks of traffic from various directions. More recently the A9 has been particularly bad at Perth due to the works that have been taking place around the A85 junction. The Keir roundabout does have quite a poor safety record and so grade separating the junction will make it much safer. Ideally motorways should not terminate on roundabouts head-on, instead they should continue as a standard D2 if possible and this idea would eliminate the instances of this currently seen at Keir and Broxden. I doubt that even if this did happen the Perth - Dunblane road would be upgraded to motorway in any hurry as there are just too many LILOs and at-grade crossroads along the road to make upgrading to motorway viable. The road does seem like an adequate D2 as it stands anyway.

[Halmyre]

Rosyth Bypass from A823(M) to A985. Also on the A985, a Crombie bypass.

Dualling the entire A985 would be a benefit, unfortunately the Clackmannan bridge has been built facing the wrong way.

Dualling the A811 would be of enormous benefit when visiting my parents.

Where I live, one of my gripes is access to Crianlarich and thence to the north-west of Scotland. The two routes to Crianlarich are round Glasgow and up the A82 or to Stirling and then up the A85. But I can't see any way of improving either route.