The future of smart motorways

[Big L]

Could the pedestrians figure include suicides? People that jump from bridges for example.

[trickstat]

Could the pedestrians figure include suicides? People that jump from bridges for example.

I would have thought it wouldn't as I don't think that can be considered a road accident.

[KeithW]

Could the pedestrians figure include suicides? People that jump from bridges for example.

People do stupid things on motorways for equally stupid reasons. I watched in horror in the mid 1980's as a Cortina lost its fully laden roof rack on the M1. I came to a stop with my hazard lights on and watched waiting for the crunch as the driver ran across the motorway from the shoulder to retrieve his stuff from lane 3.

[ManomayLR]

Could the pedestrians figure include suicides? People that jump from bridges for example.

People do stupid things on motorways for equally stupid reasons. I watched in horror in the mid 1980's as a Cortina lost its fully laden roof rack on the M1. I came to a stop with my hazard lights on and watched waiting for the crunch as the driver ran across the motorway from the shoulder to retrieve his stuff from lane 3.

Isn’t the guidance to stop at the nearest SOS phone and call for help? SOS phones existed then, right?

[trickstat]

Could the pedestrians figure include suicides? People that jump from bridges for example.

People do stupid things on motorways for equally stupid reasons. I watched in horror in the mid 1980's as a Cortina lost its fully laden roof rack on the M1. I came to a stop with my hazard lights on and watched waiting for the crunch as the driver ran across the motorway from the shoulder to retrieve his stuff from lane 3.

Isn’t the guidance to stop at the nearest SOS phone and call for help? SOS phones existed then, right?

Yes they did.

[Debaser]

Could the pedestrians figure include suicides? People that jump from bridges for example.

People do stupid things on motorways for equally stupid reasons. I watched in horror in the mid 1980's as a Cortina lost its fully laden roof rack on the M1. I came to a stop with my hazard lights on and watched waiting for the crunch as the driver ran across the motorway from the shoulder to retrieve his stuff from lane 3.

Isn’t the guidance to stop at the nearest SOS phone and call for help? SOS phones existed then, right?

The guidance also says:

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear. You should leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front so that you can pull up safely if it suddenly slows down or stops. The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance.

If all drivers followed this simple statement then these deaths on smart motorways would not occur. Clearly the attitude of certain drivers is "guidance be damned, I know better". Dunning-Kruger in full effect.

[Bendo]

Perhaps motorway limits when the road is unlit should be dropped to 30 at night then just in case there is someone walking along?

[Stevie D]

The guidance also says:

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear. You should leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front so that you can pull up safely if it suddenly slows down or stops. The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance.

If all drivers followed this simple statement then these deaths on smart motorways would not occur. Clearly the attitude of certain drivers is "guidance be damned, I know better". Dunning-Kruger in full effect.

Unfortunately they contradict themselves there, because the two-second rule doesn't give you the full stopping distance, so if you spend 50 years drumming the two-second rule into drivers then you can't expect them to be leaving the full stopping distance to the vehicle in front ... not to mention that it is unreasonably overcautious and reduces the capacity of the roads significantly. The chances of the vehicle in front stopping dead are incredibly remote. The bigger problem is not that drivers are going too fast to see hazards, but that they just don't see the hazards because they aren't looking properly.

[trickstat]

The guidance also says:

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear. You should leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front so that you can pull up safely if it suddenly slows down or stops. The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance.

If all drivers followed this simple statement then these deaths on smart motorways would not occur. Clearly the attitude of certain drivers is "guidance be damned, I know better". Dunning-Kruger in full effect.

Unfortunately they contradict themselves there, because the two-second rule doesn't give you the full stopping distance, so if you spend 50 years drumming the two-second rule into drivers then you can't expect them to be leaving the full stopping distance to the vehicle in front ... not to mention that it is unreasonably overcautious and reduces the capacity of the roads significantly. The chances of the vehicle in front stopping dead are incredibly remote. The bigger problem is not that drivers are going too fast to see hazards, but that they just don't see the hazards because they aren't looking properly.

Yes, too many drivers notice nothing further than the brake lights of the vehicle immediately in front of them.

[fras]

The guidance also says:



If all drivers followed this simple statement then these deaths on smart motorways would not occur. Clearly the attitude of certain drivers is "guidance be damned, I know better". Dunning-Kruger in full effect.

Unfortunately they contradict themselves there, because the two-second rule doesn't give you the full stopping distance, so if you spend 50 years drumming the two-second rule into drivers then you can't expect them to be leaving the full stopping distance to the vehicle in front ... not to mention that it is unreasonably overcautious and reduces the capacity of the roads significantly. The chances of the vehicle in front stopping dead are incredibly remote. The bigger problem is not that drivers are going too fast to see hazards, but that they just don't see the hazards because they aren't looking properly.

Yes, too many drivers notice nothing further than the brake lights of the vehicle immediately in front of them.

This and the most dreadful tailgating that seems to be an endemic disease on all our roads nowadays. What happened to the 2-second rule ? Mind you, I've seen just as bad on an autobahn in Basel a few years ago, where it was a solid 2 lanes of traffic. Every time I slowed to give a gap in front, somebody would nip in and fill it. I was very glad when most of them turned off to go through the tunnel under the Rhine. I was almost alone on the autobahn after that !!

[Micro The Maniac]

This and the most dreadful tailgating that seems to be an endemic disease on all our roads nowadays. What happened to the 2-second rule ?

It is self-perpetuating... leave a two-second gap, and some numpty fills it

[c2R]

You could use the lighting columns to count the two-second rule. Oh, wait...!

[thomas417]

I know I probably sound like a broken record but tolls are the answer here, even if it was a peak time charge, to suppress demand and keep motorways flowing in the safest way possible. Widening strategic motorways on the cheap isn't the solution, they fill up fast, are less safe, cost enormous amounts of money, have reduced resilience and ultimately end up in the same situation, just with added danger.

Restore the hard shoulder and bring in an automated weekday charge between say 7am and 7pm, all the numberplate recognition technologies is already there, and use the variable speed limit technology to improve flows. It's the only sensible way forward from this mess.

Attention should be given to new roads to take pressure of the existing ones such as the Oxford-Cambridge expressway and Transpennine routes along with improvements in public transport rather than widening existing roads.

[ManomayLR]

It is self-perpetuating... leave a two-second meter gap, and some numpty fills it

Updated that for you!

[c2R]

I know I probably sound like a broken record but tolls are the answer here, even if it was a peak time charge, to suppress demand and keep motorways flowing in the safest way possible. Widening strategic motorways on the cheap isn't the solution, they fill up fast, are less safe, cost enormous amounts of money, have reduced resilience and ultimately end up in the same situation, just with added danger.

The problem with that is that people will switch to using less safe roads for longer journeys to avoid paying the toll. Even an ALR smart motorway is safer than a 60s D2, or an S2 through towns and villages.... Traffic will just increase on the A10 from London to Cambridge and reduce on the M11, for example.

[Ruperts Trooper]

I know I probably sound like a broken record but tolls are the answer here, even if it was a peak time charge, to suppress demand and keep motorways flowing in the safest way possible. Widening strategic motorways on the cheap isn't the solution, they fill up fast, are less safe, cost enormous amounts of money, have reduced resilience and ultimately end up in the same situation, just with added danger.

Restore the hard shoulder and bring in an automated weekday charge between say 7am and 7pm, all the numberplate recognition technologies is already there, and use the variable speed limit technology to improve flows. It's the only sensible way forward from this mess.

Attention should be given to new roads to take pressure of the existing ones such as the Oxford-Cambridge expressway and Transpennine routes along with improvements in public transport rather than widening existing roads.

Where does that suppressed demand go if they "can't" afford to use the motorway - peak time tolls will just push traffic onto other roads even less suitable.

Now, if you were advocating a benign policy of population reduction, that would work.

[multiraider2]

I know I probably sound like a broken record but tolls are the answer here, even if it was a peak time charge, to suppress demand and keep motorways flowing in the safest way possible. Widening strategic motorways on the cheap isn't the solution, they fill up fast, are less safe, cost enormous amounts of money, have reduced resilience and ultimately end up in the same situation, just with added danger.

Restore the hard shoulder and bring in an automated weekday charge between say 7am and 7pm, all the numberplate recognition technologies is already there, and use the variable speed limit technology to improve flows. It's the only sensible way forward from this mess.

Attention should be given to new roads to take pressure of the existing ones such as the Oxford-Cambridge expressway and Transpennine routes along with improvements in public transport rather than widening existing roads.

Then you are just pricing the poorest off the roads. Taxation and this is what it would be, however you dress it up, should be equitable. Don't worry, the Brexit and Covid shambles should ensure there are 10% of the working population unemployed by the middle of the year and then you can drive your Bentley without the riff raff getting in your way. And building new roads through the countryside won't help either.

[KeithW]

Isn’t the guidance to stop at the nearest SOS phone and call for help? SOS phones existed then, right?

Yes and Yes - I did say it was stupid.

[darkcape]

It is self-perpetuating... leave a two-second meter gap, and some numpty fills it

Updated that for you!

You are supposed to leave a 2-second gap. 2 metres is barely half a car length.

[ManomayLR]

It is self-perpetuating... leave a two-second meter gap, and some numpty fills it

Updated that for you!

You are supposed to leave a 2-second gap. 2 metres is barely half a car length.

No, I know that, I was making a joke about social distancing.

More specifically, to an instance where in a queue at a store, I left a two-meter gap with the person in front of me, and sure enough, someone jumped the queue and stood in front of me by slotting into the gap.