The future of smart motorways

[Berk]

The best thing you could have would be some signage with a direct line to a control centre operator - or a text number that sends an alert to the same place.

[Conekicker]

Going back to future improvements of SMs, what's your opinion on emergency buttons

Meaning if your vehicle is stuck, and you stop near a gantry or MS4, if you push an emergency button it'll set an automatic X 20 20 20 and sound an alarm in the RCC

If that suggestion involves someone going on foot across live lanes to access the button, forget it. You wouldn't believe how clueless the general public is as to how dangerous the motorway environment is when on foot.

What if every cats eye was an emergency button?

(I'm being silly)

Very silly indeed

[WHBM]

No numbers, but on most long trips I observe vehicles stopped in the emergency refuges, but have not yet seen one stranded in a live lane.

Passed one yesterday, M25 north side ALR. Fortunately opposite direction. Not even in lane 1 but in lane 2 (or maybe 3). Big backup behind it. And regularly one sees the VMS "Stranded Vehicle".

The belief that "cars have become more reliable" is that only mechanical faults require the hard shoulder. But these are only a small proportion of incidents. Front wheel punctures, or that old classic, running out of fuel, are more common. I hear that starter failure on a vehicle with automatic stop-start dragging along in a lengthy queue is a new one.

[Chris5156]

Going back to future improvements of SMs, what's your opinion on emergency buttons

Meaning if your vehicle is stuck, and you stop near a gantry or MS4, if you push an emergency button it'll set an automatic X 20 20 20 and sound an alarm in the RCC

Sounds like a terrific way for anyone who’s bored and a bit of a troublemaker to bring a motorway to a standstill at the push of a button. I can imagine kids jumping the boundary fence to run down the embankment and repeatedly push it. No thank you.

It’s also no use for anything other than a vehicle stopped in the left lane.

[jackal]

Such buttons would also conflict with the official advice to stay in a stranded vehicle.

[Brenley Corner]

Passed one yesterday, M25 north side ALR. Fortunately opposite direction. Not even in lane 1 but in lane 2 (or maybe 3). Big backup behind it. And regularly one sees the VMS "Stranded Vehicle".

The belief that "cars have become more reliable" is that only mechanical faults require the hard shoulder. But these are only a small proportion of incidents. Front wheel punctures, or that old classic, running out of fuel, are more common. I hear that starter failure on a vehicle with automatic stop-start dragging along in a lengthy queue is a new one.

So if they were stranded in Lane 2 or Lane 3 that tells me that they probably wouldn't have got over to hard shoulder even if had there been one. On the M2 Coast-bound (2 lane section) this morning there was a stranded vehicle in Lane 2 (of 2) pulled as close to the central reservation as possible (with the driver still in it!) but still in a dangerous place and causing havoc behind it. In both cases the presence of hard shoulder or not was irrelevant.

As an aside my last car (a Volvo V40) had Stop/Start built-in but I always turned it off on the dashboard at the start of each journey as I didn't trust it! My current car thankfully doesn't have it.

Tony

[Chris5156]

So if they were stranded in Lane 2 or Lane 3 that tells me that they probably wouldn't have got over to hard shoulder even if had there been one. On the M2 Coast-bound (2 lane section) this morning there was a stranded vehicle in Lane 2 (of 2) pulled as close to the central reservation as possible (with the driver still in it!) but still in a dangerous place and causing havoc behind it. In both cases the presence of hard shoulder or not was irrelevant.

Indeed, I well remember travelling up the M11 just north of J9 in very light traffic, and suddenly finding the couple of cars ahead of me slamming on the brakes. I soon saw why. There had evidently been some sort of minor bump, and the drivers of the two cars had, for reasons best known to themselves, decided to stop in the right-hand lane, even though it was only a two-lane motorway and there was a full width hard shoulder about five metres to the left of their cars. Vehicles were approaching in the right-hand lane at 70 and above, and traffic was not heavy enough to have caused any sort of queue to have built up that would shield them from approaching traffic. I've never seen anything so wantonly idiotic in all my life. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I'm not sure I'd believe that two grown men capable of passing a driving test could be so moronically reckless.

I'm not attempting to make out that having no hard shoulder is better - simply that the presence or absence of a hard shoulder is not, in itself, a guarantee of safety. With or without one the roads are still used by vehicles that can become immobilised in the wrong place, and by people who will wilfully and stupidly put themselves in harm's way.

[Debaser]

It depends upon a number of factors, but one SM scheme I worked on on the M1 had approximately 9% of breakdowns on the old D3M layout not reaching the hard shoulder and stopping in one of the live lanes.

As to the number of breakdowns one can expect on a motorway, German research came up with figures of between 3 and 7 breakdowns per million vehicle kilometres, whilst UK research had figures of 5 breakdowns per million vehicle kilometres for heavy vehicles and 10 breakdowns per million vehicle kilometres for light vehicles (including cars).

[Jeni]

As an aside my last car (a Volvo V40) had Stop/Start built-in but I always turned it off on the dashboard at the start of each journey as I didn't trust it! My current car thankfully doesn't have it.

I do the same, not because I don't trust it but because it's bloody annoying!

[mikehindsonevans]

As an aside my last car (a Volvo V40) had Stop/Start built-in but I always turned it off on the dashboard at the start of each journey as I didn't trust it! My current car thankfully doesn't have it.

I do the same, not because I don't trust it but because it's bloody annoying!

Well, we are now on our 4th car with stop/start. We have, in total, covered some 175k miles and the system has, NEVER, let us down.

Push down the clutch (in the two original manuals) and restart was instant.

Likewise, release the footbrake in the two current automatic X1s and restart is instant - you are pulling forward before the brake pedal has returned to the top of its travel.

Jen, there is thus is nothing to fear. Personally, we do not find it annoying and we enjoy "doing our bit" on the rare occasion that we find ourselves in a Cheshire traffic jam.

Mike

[Jeni]

I do the same, not because I don't trust it but because it's bloody annoying!

Well, we are now on our 4th car with stop/start. We have, in total, covered some 175k miles and the system has, NEVER, let us down.

Push down the clutch (in the two original manuals) and restart was instant.

Likewise, release the footbrake in the two current automatic X1s and restart is instant - you are pulling forward before the brake pedal has returned to the top of its travel.

Jen, there is thus is nothing to fear. Personally, we do not find it annoying and we enjoy "doing our bit" on the rare occasion that we find ourselves in a Cheshire traffic jam.

Mike

Like I said, I don't fear anything - it's just annoying!

[Stevie D]

In my experience drivers who don't know when they should or shouldn't use the hard shoulder stay out of it, even when it's open. Which is the desirable situation.
...
I'm more than happy to go back to having always-closed hard shoulders on every motorway and widen the roads that need it, but my opinion remains that DHSR is safer than ALR.

How can it be desirable that drivers don't know whether or not they are allowed to drive in the hard shoulder? Do you mean that you like it because you get a lane to yourself that other people don't use? It's not exactly a good use of money to spend umpteen squillions of pounds upgrading a road to allow DHSR of one of three main advantages is that most drivers don't use the facility because they don't understand how it works.

What stats show that ALR is more dangerous than DHSR? Gut instinct and anecdotes are not reliable ways to measure risk.

[Stevie D]

As an aside my last car (a Volvo V40) had Stop/Start built-in but I always turned it off on the dashboard at the start of each journey as I didn't trust it! My current car thankfully doesn't have it.

I have done nearly 60,000 miles in just under 3 years in my car and allow the stop/start to kick in most of the time. I have never once had a problem with it not restarting properly. I don't think there is any reason not to trust it on a Volvo! I am happy to know that while I'm sitting in stationary traffic I am not chucking out fumes at passing pedestrians and it also makes the interior of the car more peaceful with no noise or vibration from the engine at all.

[Big L]

The people that don't use an open hard shoulder are the same people that don't use lane 1 of any motorway. It's for da lorrys innit?

[KeithW]

No numbers, but on most long trips I observe vehicles stopped in the emergency refuges, but have not yet seen one stranded in a live lane.

Passed one yesterday, M25 north side ALR. Fortunately opposite direction. Not even in lane 1 but in lane 2 (or maybe 3). Big backup behind it. And regularly one sees the VMS "Stranded Vehicle".

The belief that "cars have become more reliable" is that only mechanical faults require the hard shoulder. But these are only a small proportion of incidents. Front wheel punctures, or that old classic, running out of fuel, are more common. I hear that starter failure on a vehicle with automatic stop-start dragging along in a lengthy queue is a new one.

A puncture is a mechanical fault often caused by a foreign body on the road, running out of fuel is negligence and the driver should be charged for the full cost of the recovery. The belief that cars have become more reliable is true of properly maintained vehicles. Unfortunately many cars stranded on the roads have not been properly maintained or indeed maintained at all. I recall going (unpaid) to help one driver stuck on a MSA on the M1 who couldn't get his car started. When I checked the oil level what was on the dipstick resembled mud more than oil. He admitted he had run it for 4 years without a service or oil change. This why the MOT test now includes checks on oil and water levels.

[Stevie D]

A puncture is a mechanical fault often caused by a foreign body on the road, running out of fuel is negligence and the driver should be charged for the full cost of the recovery. The belief that cars have become more reliable is true of properly maintained vehicles.

There is also less excuse for running out of fuel. Almost all cars these days will have a range countdown when the fuel tank goes into the red zone (my 2003 Citroën C3 had one and there aren't all that many cars older than that still on the road), if not all the time, so drivers know exactly how far they have left. I would suspect that fuel gauges are also less likely to fail now than they were 30 years ago. And it is easier than ever to find out about the locations and prices of fuel stations with the world of the internet.

[ManomayLR]

A puncture is a mechanical fault often caused by a foreign body on the road, running out of fuel is negligence and the driver should be charged for the full cost of the recovery. The belief that cars have become more reliable is true of properly maintained vehicles.

And it is easier than ever to find out about the locations and prices of fuel stations with the world of the internet.

What about if the fuel indicators on the M5 had been successful?

The MS4s on ALR should say "check your fuel level".

[Jeni]

The MS4s on ALR should say "check your fuel level".

Why?! Are we going to start filling up VMS with other common sense messages like "remember to go round corners"?

[Berk]

The MS4s on ALR should say "check your fuel level".

Why?! Are we going to start filling up VMS with other common sense messages like "remember to go round corners"?

Judging by the number of people who drive across roundabouts, and the other types of “helpful” advice we seem to get, mightn’t be a bad thing.

[jervi]

Interesting reading this about running out of fuel and what-not. I would of thought that running out of fuel would be an fineable offence, just like having tyres too worn.
I believe that running out of fuel in the Rotherhithe Tunnel is a fineable offence, why can't that be applied on all clearways (would say everywhere, but tbh it wouldn't be much of an inconvenience to anyone but the driver if you ran out of fuel on a residential street)