The future of smart motorways

[Bendo]

The main problem we face on DHSR is this.

Early_Morning_Traffic_on_the_M42_Motorway_-_Geograph_-_86205.jpg

Why can't the hard shoulder have a red X?

It usually does.

I've never seen one dislaying a red x you usually get the odd sign stating Hard Shoulder for emergency use only. Presumably because it is better for people to think nothing displayed = do not use, rather than red x = do not use so that f power fails people don't see something out of the ordinary and assume it is open as a running lane.

[ManomayLR]

The main problem we face on DHSR is this.

Early_Morning_Traffic_on_the_M42_Motorway_-_Geograph_-_86205.jpg

Why can't the hard shoulder have a red X?

It usually does.

I've never seen one displaying a red x you usually get the odd sign stating Hard Shoulder for emergency use only. Presumably because it is better for people to think nothing displayed = do not use, rather than red x = do not use so that f power fails people don't see something out of the ordinary and assume it is open as a running lane.

well, obviously not. People are getting confused about SMs and when the HS is open or closed.

The one thing I do not like is how newspapers (cough cough Telegraph) take a very strongly oppositional stance towards SMs, calling them "cash cows" and "death traps." They do not realize that there are lots of congested motorways which need extra capacity and our transport budget cannot stretch to traditionally widening all of them. The safety concerns are understandable, and these unfortunate deaths unforgivable, but I'm sure you would second that a lot of the UK's badly jammed motorways are too desperate for extra space to be able to wait for a more robust solution. What we need to do is develop a new stopped vehicle detection technology that can be retrofitted to the existing ALR design. That way, we get extra capacity but can then improve on safety when we can. Still, a lot of drivers will find that the variable speed limit is reducing congestion, as long as it is followed. A lot of people notice the limit is there but without queueing traffic - but this is because people are following the limit and so the queue is never forming.

[ManomayLR]

This is so beautiful...

honestly how do they not know even if there's a red X?

[Helvellyn]

This is so beautiful...

honestly how do they not know even if there's a red X?

Do the cameras pick up red X violations as well as speeding?

[nowster]

This is so beautiful...

honestly how do they not know even if there's a red X?

Do the cameras pick up red X violations as well as speeding?

Since June, yes.

[Berk]

I may be wrong, but I don’t believe the super-high cameras are for enforcement, just CCTV. The enforcement ones are gantry-mounted.

[ManomayLR]

I may be wrong, but I don’t believe the super-high cameras are for enforcement, just CCTV. The enforcement ones are gantry-mounted.

You're right IIRC. The "super-high" cameras are used even on dumb motorways with only central reserve MS1s. On which we all know there's no speed enforcement.

[ais523]

Do the cameras pick up red X violations as well as speeding?

All the older models of smart motorway enforcement cameras couldn't tell which lane someone was in, which is one reason why the limit for every lane is always the same, and prevented camera enforcement of red Xes.

A new camera model has come out recently that can tell, so it's likely being used for red X enforcement everywhere it's installed.

[Conekicker]

Something that intrigued me this weekend, and reinforced this morning, having suffered with the M3.

How many breakdowns on SMART motorways managed to reach an emergency refuge, and how many get stranded on a live lane?

Bung in an FOI. Post the result here. It will doubtless be informative (and slightly scary). Perhaps a more telling question would be how many and for long are lanes taken out of use as a result of an incident?

[Ruperts Trooper]

This is so beautiful...

honestly how do they not know even if there's a red X?

That's not helped by the blue signage implying lane 1 for the junction and showing lanes 2-4 for the mainline.

[Bryn666]

This is so beautiful...

honestly how do they not know even if there's a red X?

That's not helped by the blue signage implying lane 1 for the junction and showing lanes 2-4 for the mainline.

That'll just be driver arrogance rather than not knowing. These people know, they just don't care. They hate being told what to do.

[ManomayLR]

Just a question: when installing controlled motorways (where they don’t remove the hard shoulder) nowadays, I noticed that they use full gantries much more than individual MS4s, and also they mount an MS4 above each gantry. But for anyone who knows the M25 well, only the sections with ALR are equipped with MS4 signs. All other sections have MS2 or MS3, even on the huge swathes of controlled motorway on the western section. Why is this so and why can’t these be upgraded to MS4 systems?

[jackal]

how many get stranded on a live lane?

HE's figures show a 216% increase in "Vehicle stopping in a running lane" on ALR compared to traditional motorway.

To put that in context, this risk factor ranks fourth and accounts for only 1.6% of deaths and serious injuries. The vast majority of risk factors are down. This includes major (42-59%) decreases in the second, fifth and sixth ranked risk factors (“Individual vehicle is driven too fast”, "Tailgating", and "Rapid change of general vehicle speed"). On the whole ALR is significantly safer.

See Mouchel's report for HE: https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.highway ... report.pdf

Also parliamentary ALR inquiry (which favoured HSR, weirdly): https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... 5/inquiry/

[Debaser]

how many get stranded on a live lane?

HE's figures show a 216% increase in "Vehicle stopping in a running lane" on ALR compared to traditional motorway.

That’s a (potential) increase in risk, not an absolute increase in numbers.

ETA
The 'before' score is E07.81 (E= 'Event') made up of Frequency of 4.81, Probability 1.5 and Severity of 1.5, the meaning of these scores is given below.
Frequency
5.0 Frequent: 100 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway
4.5 Between Frequent and Probable: 31.6 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway

Probability
2 Occasional: This hazard, if it occurs, will occasionally cause a collision
1 Remote: There is a remote chance that this hazard, if it occurs, will cause a collision

Severity
1.5 Higher than Average: Proportion of fatal collisions is expected to be a factor of 3 higher than average.

The 'after' (i.e. Smart Motorway) score is E08.31 made up of Frequency of 5.31*, Probability 1.5 and Severity of 1.5, the meaning of the larger frequency value is given below.
Frequency
5.5 Between Very Frequent and Frequent: 316 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway
5.0 Frequent: 100 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway

Therefore, the 'Before' risk score for this particular hazard is 10^7.81 and the 'After' score 10^8.31. Increase in risk is 2.16/216%.

Bear in mind this is one hazard of about 100 in the Hazard Log that are assessed and re-assessed as scheme design develops.


(*This is inferred from the text of the report referred to above.)

[Alderpoint]

How many breakdowns on SMART motorways managed to reach an emergency refuge, and how many get stranded on a live lane?

No numbers, but on most long trips I observe vehicles stopped in the emergency refuges, but have not yet seen one stranded in a live lane.

[jackal]

how many get stranded on a live lane?

HE's figures show a 216% increase in "Vehicle stopping in a running lane" on ALR compared to traditional motorway.

That’s a (potential) increase in risk, not an absolute increase in numbers.

ETA
The 'before' score is E07.81 (E= 'Event') made up of Frequency of 4.81, Probability 1.5 and Severity of 1.5, the meaning of these scores is given below.
Frequency
5.0 Frequent: 100 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway
4.5 Between Frequent and Probable: 31.6 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway

Probability
2 Occasional: This hazard, if it occurs, will occasionally cause a collision
1 Remote: There is a remote chance that this hazard, if it occurs, will cause a collision

Severity
1.5 Higher than Average: Proportion of fatal collisions is expected to be a factor of 3 higher than average.

The 'after' (i.e. Smart Motorway) score is E08.31 made up of Frequency of 5.31*, Probability 1.5 and Severity of 1.5, the meaning of the larger frequency value is given below.
Frequency
5.5 Between Very Frequent and Frequent: 316 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway
5.0 Frequent: 100 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway

Therefore, the 'Before' risk score for this particular hazard is 10^7.81 and the 'After' score 10^8.31. Increase in risk is 2.16/216%.

Bear in mind this is one hazard of about 100 in the Hazard Log that are assessed and re-assessed as scheme design develops.


(*This is inferred from the text of the report referred to above.)

Thanks for clarification!

[Debaser]

HE's figures show a 216% increase in "Vehicle stopping in a running lane" on ALR compared to traditional motorway.

That’s a (potential) increase in risk, not an absolute increase in numbers.

ETA
The 'before' score is E07.81 (E= 'Event') made up of Frequency of 4.81, Probability 1.5 and Severity of 1.5, the meaning of these scores is given below.
Frequency
5.0 Frequent: 100 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway
4.5 Between Frequent and Probable: 31.6 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway

Probability
2 Occasional: This hazard, if it occurs, will occasionally cause a collision
1 Remote: There is a remote chance that this hazard, if it occurs, will cause a collision

Severity
1.5 Higher than Average: Proportion of fatal collisions is expected to be a factor of 3 higher than average.

The 'after' (i.e. Smart Motorway) score is E08.31 made up of Frequency of 5.31*, Probability 1.5 and Severity of 1.5, the meaning of the larger frequency value is given below.
Frequency
5.5 Between Very Frequent and Frequent: 316 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway
5.0 Frequent: 100 Occurrences per year per mile of motorway

Therefore, the 'Before' risk score for this particular hazard is 10^7.81 and the 'After' score 10^8.31. Increase in risk is 2.16/216%.

Bear in mind this is one hazard of about 100 in the Hazard Log that are assessed and re-assessed as scheme design develops.


(*This is inferred from the text of the report referred to above.)

Thanks for clarification!

No problem. Even in the industry there's a temptation to get fixated on the figures as absolute values; that this decrease in risk will lead to a directly comparable reduction in collisions. It's not this direct. However, overall, if the total scheme 'after' score is lower than the 'before' score then we can conclude that, on balance the scheme will perform better in terms of safety than what it replaces. As I've said before, this risk assessment process (GG104, which replaced the GD04 referred to in the referenced report) used only to be applied to Smart Motorway schemes, but HE likes it so much it is now used for all schemes.

http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/h ... nt-web.pdf

[ManomayLR]

Going back to future improvements of SMs, what's your opinion on emergency buttons

Meaning if your vehicle is stuck, and you stop near a gantry or MS4, if you push an emergency button it'll set an automatic X 20 20 20 and sound an alarm in the RCC

[Conekicker]

Going back to future improvements of SMs, what's your opinion on emergency buttons

Meaning if your vehicle is stuck, and you stop near a gantry or MS4, if you push an emergency button it'll set an automatic X 20 20 20 and sound an alarm in the RCC

If that suggestion involves someone going on foot across live lanes to access the button, forget it. You wouldn't believe how clueless the general public is as to how dangerous the motorway environment is when on foot.

[Jeni]

Going back to future improvements of SMs, what's your opinion on emergency buttons

Meaning if your vehicle is stuck, and you stop near a gantry or MS4, if you push an emergency button it'll set an automatic X 20 20 20 and sound an alarm in the RCC

If that suggestion involves someone going on foot across live lanes to access the button, forget it. You wouldn't believe how clueless the general public is as to how dangerous the motorway environment is when on foot.

What if every cats eye was an emergency button?

(I'm being silly)