M20 Operation Brock

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Chris5156
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Chris5156 »

Conekicker wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 19:10
Phil wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 17:07
frediculous_biggs wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 13:56 I wonder if it will be stored off the hard shoulder, or on it - potentially removing the HS from the southbound direction. I wonder if they'll be a reduced speed limit because of this
Given the SoS statement about Smart Motorways today I would imagine that either the SPECs enforced speed limit will stay (the easy option) or they will brake up the barrier into sections and leave gaps every mile or so.
A gap every mile? Adjacent each existing SOS phone possibly? That would need a terminal section of some description fitting to each barrier end exposed to approaching traffic. £££££££££££
What happens to the barrier will reveal everything about whether Operation Brock is being removed, as per press reports, or if it's just being stood down and will potentially come back in future.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Conekicker »

Chris5156 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:26
Conekicker wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 19:10
Phil wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 17:07
Given the SoS statement about Smart Motorways today I would imagine that either the SPECs enforced speed limit will stay (the easy option) or they will brake up the barrier into sections and leave gaps every mile or so.
A gap every mile? Adjacent each existing SOS phone possibly? That would need a terminal section of some description fitting to each barrier end exposed to approaching traffic. £££££££££££
What happens to the barrier will reveal everything about whether Operation Brock is being removed, as per press reports, or if it's just being stood down and will potentially come back in future.
Well you never know when the French will go on strike next, do you? :twisted:
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Brock is back!
"To help the flow of heavy traffic expected due to the school holidays and easing of Covid restrictions for holidaymakers."
https://twitter.com/HighwaysSEAST/statu ... 3649609733
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-57863413
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Chris5156
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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To help the flow of heavy traffic, we’re reducing the M20 to a two-lane 50mph contraflow? :confused:

What’s going to be using the closed carriageway?
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Chris5156 wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 08:46 To help the flow of heavy traffic, we’re reducing the M20 to a two-lane 50mph contraflow? :confused:

What’s going to be using the closed carriageway?
At a guess, there was an expection of mega-delays at the Port of Dover and the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone as a result of the previously planned (and now cancelled) move of France from the red to the amber Covid travel list this coming Monday (19th), and the resulting surge of tourist traffic... all* of whom would now require their passports to be stamped on entry to France/Schengen.

So Brexit related, with a good dose of Covid thrown in.

* "all" UK passport holders that is.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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John McAdam wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:24
Chris5156 wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 08:46 To help the flow of heavy traffic, we’re reducing the M20 to a two-lane 50mph contraflow? :confused:

What’s going to be using the closed carriageway?
At a guess, there was an expection of mega-delays at the Port of Dover and the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone as a result of the previously planned (and now cancelled) move of France from the red to the amber Covid travel list this coming Monday (19th), and the resulting surge of tourist traffic... all* of whom would now require their passports to be stamped on entry to France/Schengen.

So Brexit related, with a good dose of Covid thrown in.

* "all" UK passport holders that is.
I have only once seen the French stamping a British passport. The passport holder was aged about five or six, could barely see over the desk and the passport official stamped his passport very carefully. The little boy was thrilled.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Vierwielen wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 21:37
John McAdam wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:24
Chris5156 wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 08:46 To help the flow of heavy traffic, we’re reducing the M20 to a two-lane 50mph contraflow? :confused:

What’s going to be using the closed carriageway?
At a guess, there was an expection of mega-delays at the Port of Dover and the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone as a result of the previously planned (and now cancelled) move of France from the red to the amber Covid travel list this coming Monday (19th), and the resulting surge of tourist traffic... all* of whom would now require their passports to be stamped on entry to France/Schengen.

So Brexit related, with a good dose of Covid thrown in.

* "all" UK passport holders that is.
I have only once seen the French stamping a British passport. The passport holder was aged about five or six, could barely see over the desk and the passport official stamped his passport very carefully. The little boy was thrilled.
Yes that was because we were in the EU, now we are out you will get stamped. I went to Porto for the Champions League final and my passport was stamped on entry, never happened before but as we are out of the EU, it has to be now. Portuguese border control was very good, and we now how fickle the French can be, I was stuck in the mega queues for Dover in 2016 just after the vote when the French decided to check everyone. Lucky I went A2 and it only took Four hours to get from the end of the Whitfield turn onto the boat, while coming the A20/M20 way the wait was 12 hours
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by John McAdam »

Vierwielen wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 21:37
John McAdam wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:24
Chris5156 wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 08:46 To help the flow of heavy traffic, we’re reducing the M20 to a two-lane 50mph contraflow? :confused:

What’s going to be using the closed carriageway?
At a guess, there was an expection of mega-delays at the Port of Dover and the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone as a result of the previously planned (and now cancelled) move of France from the red to the amber Covid travel list this coming Monday (19th), and the resulting surge of tourist traffic... all* of whom would now require their passports to be stamped on entry to France/Schengen.

So Brexit related, with a good dose of Covid thrown in.

* "all" UK passport holders that is.
I have only once seen the French stamping a British passport. The passport holder was aged about five or six, could barely see over the desk and the passport official stamped his passport very carefully. The little boy was thrilled.
As A303Chris says, that was before Brexit. UK citizens are now 'third country nationals' without freedom of movement rights in the EU (with the exception of those UK citizens who were resident in the EU prior to Brexit).

Entry to and exit from the Schengen area for 'third country nationals' results in the stamping of passports, which for most visitors signify the start and end of the 90 days within 180 days visa-free entitlement to stay in the area. Whether the French authorities (and the EU) might relent on this requirement at Dover and/or the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone if there's horrendous congestion is another question.

But it's part of the (hard) Brexit deal we're signed up to - or more specifically, the post-Brexit Trade and Co-operation Agreement agreed on 30 December doesn't encompass anything that exempts UK citizens from the standard requirements to be 'checked in' and then 'checked out' of the Schengen area.
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Vierwielen
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Vierwielen »

John McAdam wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 15:43
Vierwielen wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 21:37
John McAdam wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:24

At a guess, there was an expection of mega-delays at the Port of Dover and the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone as a result of the previously planned (and now cancelled) move of France from the red to the amber Covid travel list this coming Monday (19th), and the resulting surge of tourist traffic... all* of whom would now require their passports to be stamped on entry to France/Schengen.

So Brexit related, with a good dose of Covid thrown in.

* "all" UK passport holders that is.
I have only once seen the French stamping a British passport. The passport holder was aged about five or six, could barely see over the desk and the passport official stamped his passport very carefully. The little boy was thrilled.
As A303Chris says, that was before Brexit. UK citizens are now 'third country nationals' without freedom of movement rights in the EU (with the exception of those UK citizens who were resident in the EU prior to Brexit).

Entry to and exit from the Schengen area for 'third country nationals' results in the stamping of passports, which for most visitors signify the start and end of the 90 days within 180 days visa-free entitlement to stay in the area. Whether France/ the EU might relent on this requirement at Dover and/or the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone if there's horrendous congestion is another question.

But it's part of the (hard) Brexit deal we're signed up to - or more specifically, the post-Brexit Trade and Co-operation Agreement agreed on 30 December doesn't encompass anything that exempts UK citizens from the standard requirements to be 'checked in' and then 'checked out' of the Schengen area.
That is one of the many things that Boris has to negotiate (along with sausage meat). I foresee that in five years time, by virtue of all the agreements that we will have to negotiate, we will effectively be members of the EEA (even if we do not formally join that organisation).
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Octaviadriver »

Vierwielen wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 21:37
John McAdam wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:24
Chris5156 wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 08:46 To help the flow of heavy traffic, we’re reducing the M20 to a two-lane 50mph contraflow? :confused:

What’s going to be using the closed carriageway?
At a guess, there was an expection of mega-delays at the Port of Dover and the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone as a result of the previously planned (and now cancelled) move of France from the red to the amber Covid travel list this coming Monday (19th), and the resulting surge of tourist traffic... all* of whom would now require their passports to be stamped on entry to France/Schengen.

So Brexit related, with a good dose of Covid thrown in.

* "all" UK passport holders that is.
I have only once seen the French stamping a British passport. The passport holder was aged about five or six, could barely see over the desk and the passport official stamped his passport very carefully. The little boy was thrilled.
They stamped mine when I arrived at Calais by hovercraft the first time I took a car abroad in July 1971. Of course, we hadn't joined the Common Market/EU at that time and the volume of traffic was much lower back then.
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Vierwielen
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Vierwielen »

Octaviadriver wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 16:00
Vierwielen wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 21:37
John McAdam wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:24

At a guess, there was an expection of mega-delays at the Port of Dover and the Chunnel terminal at Folkestone as a result of the previously planned (and now cancelled) move of France from the red to the amber Covid travel list this coming Monday (19th), and the resulting surge of tourist traffic... all* of whom would now require their passports to be stamped on entry to France/Schengen.

So Brexit related, with a good dose of Covid thrown in.

* "all" UK passport holders that is.
I have only once seen the French stamping a British passport. The passport holder was aged about five or six, could barely see over the desk and the passport official stamped his passport very carefully. The little boy was thrilled.
They stamped mine when I arrived at Calais by hovercraft the first time I took a car abroad in July 1971. Of course, we hadn't joined the Common Market/EU at that time and the volume of traffic was much lower back then.
I have a complete record of every time I left or entered South Africa since I got my first passport. Although I was brought up in South Africa (I was born in Dorset), I never took out South African citizenship, so I always travelled on a British passport, though my current passport no longer has my South African permanent residence visa in it.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Amended legislation is coming into force to make the legal requirements for installing this permanent in case of disruption at the Ports / Eurotunnel. The final legislation will remove the Brexit and Covid requirements.

Seems a sensible idea but given the number of respondents to the consultation it would seem that it was not well publicised.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by A9NWIL »

A303Chris wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:11 Amended legislation is coming into force to make the legal requirements for installing this permanent in case of disruption at the Ports / Eurotunnel. The final legislation will remove the Brexit and Covid requirements.

Seems a sensible idea but given the number of respondents to the consultation it would seem that it was not well publicised.
If they are going to make it a permanent feature they should modify the carriageway to a 3+3+3 config with ERAs on 2 of the 3s. That way there will be a D3 with ERA smart type motorway for the duration and a 3rd 3 lane carriageway that can be used for lorry parking that has an emergency lane down the middle of it. If the Lorry park carriageway was in the centre of the other two then the junctions could work as normal. There would have to be a short section of lane 3 that would allow lorries to enter with long slip roads into and out of the lorry park.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Bryn666 »

lotrjw wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 16:45
A303Chris wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:11 Amended legislation is coming into force to make the legal requirements for installing this permanent in case of disruption at the Ports / Eurotunnel. The final legislation will remove the Brexit and Covid requirements.

Seems a sensible idea but given the number of respondents to the consultation it would seem that it was not well publicised.
If they are going to make it a permanent feature they should modify the carriageway to a 3+3+3 config with ERAs on 2 of the 3s. That way there will be a D3 with ERA smart type motorway for the duration and a 3rd 3 lane carriageway that can be used for lorry parking that has an emergency lane down the middle of it. If the Lorry park carriageway was in the centre of the other two then the junctions could work as normal. There would have to be a short section of lane 3 that would allow lorries to enter with long slip roads into and out of the lorry park.
They'd be better just admitting defeat and pointing out that we have not got the adequate border infrastructure on this side to manage this problem. The M20 could probably function as a D2 beyond J8 if this D2 was restricted to UK destination traffic only and all port traffic was sent into queue management infrastructure on the eastbound side as done in Brock. If money is to be spent it should be on finishing the dualling of the A2 to Whitfield and A256 down from Manston Airfield to allow resilience across Kent as this will be a recurring thing.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by John McAdam »

jervi wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 06:41 Brock is back!
"To help the flow of heavy traffic expected due to the school holidays and easing of Covid restrictions for holidaymakers."
https://twitter.com/HighwaysSEAST/statu ... 3649609733
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-57863413

It hasn't yet been mentioned on this thread, but this latest deployment only lasted two weeks - from Sunday 18 July to Saturday 31 July.
https://twitter.com/HighwaysSEAST/statu ... 3416055813

Article from Kent Online - Operation Brock barrier on M20 between Ashford and Maidstone to be lifted overnight on Saturday

Some excerpts...
The unpopular contraflow, which features narrow lanes and a 50mph limit between Ashford and Maidstone, was introduced on Sunday, July 18 in anticipation of increased international travel as a result of Covid restrictions lifting.

But leaders at Kent Resilience Forum (KRF) say the risk of disruption has now reduced following the start of the summer holidays and the barriers will be removed on Saturday night when the motorway will be closed to allow the removal to be completed.
[...]

The decision to take down the M20 barrier is based on passenger booking forecasts and reduced check-in times at border inspection points at the cross-Channel borders.

Kent Resilience Forum partners say they will continue to monitor the situation closely and will only redeploy the barrier should the data indicate a need.
[...]

KCC’s Highways Director and KRF Strategic Planning Lead Simon Jones said: “After a problem-free week, we are pleased to be able to say that the barrier is coming down."

"But, as in April, it will be stored on the hard shoulder ready to return should the need arise."

"I can assure that whenever we put traffic management controls out there is a very good reason – and we will always do everything we can to quickly remove them as soon as they are no longer needed, as we are doing now."
[...]

Nicola Bell, Highways England Regional Director, said: “Along with our KRF partners, we feel it was the right decision to deploy the barrier to be ready for potential disruption in order to keep Kent moving."

"The flexibility of the barrier system means we can remove it and redeploy it at short notice in the event of any future Channel port disruption."

“We thank people for their patience while the moveable barrier has been in place and are looking forward to restoring the M20 to full capacity.”
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by jackal »

12 months of works to relocate storage of the Brock barrier to the central reservation, restoring the HS:

https://www.fleetpoint.org/road-buildin ... er-on-m20/
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Ritchie333 »

jackal wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 09:20 12 months of works to relocate storage of the Brock barrier to the central reservation, restoring the HS:

https://www.fleetpoint.org/road-buildin ... er-on-m20/
Looks like I'll be using the A20 to get to Maidstone and all points beyond for the near future then. Or taking the train and watching the parallel road traffic go even more in slow motion.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by linuxrocks »

I had to laugh at this. Huw Merriman, Tory MP, went to look at the queues caused by brexit and stepped in some poo. Kent, the garden toilet of England.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news ... nt-261522/
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by trickstat »

linuxrocks wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:04 I had to laugh at this. Huw Merriman, Tory MP, went to look at the queues caused by brexit and stepped in some poo. Kent, the garden toilet of England.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news ... nt-261522/
He is the MP for Bexhill and Battle so that is not a nice greeting for someone from just over the Sussex border!
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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