M20 Operation Brock

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Chris5156
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Keiji wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 13:13My vague understanding, though, as far as Stack and Brock relate to the M20, was that while Stack closes the eastbound side and leaves the westbound untouched such that eastbound traffic has to divert onto other roads, Brock closes the eastbound carriageway and replaces the westbound carriageway with a 2+2 contraflow at 50mph. This would seem to me to have little to do with the reason for the closure. Am I missing something here?
Yes, I think you're missing the fact that Operation Brock takes days to set out and we did not have days to spare when France unilaterally closed its borders with the UK. It came with no notice and as soon as it happened the lorries started piling up in large numbers. Operation Stack can be implemented in a matter of hours, so it was really the only choice.

Operation Brock is due to be rolled out just after Christmas, ahead of the end of the transition period on 31 December. If it had already been in place, then no doubt lorries would be queued up on the eastbound carriageway, and the M20 would still be open in both directions using the Brock contraflow. But it's not, so Stack had to be implemented instead.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Keiji »

Ah - got it. Thanks :)
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by jervi »

From what Grant Shapps just said on the PM's briefing, it sounds like they are putting Brock into action, rather than Stack.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Phil »

jervi wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 17:17 From what Grant Shapps just said on the PM's briefing, it sounds like they are putting Brock into action, rather than Stack.
Given the M20 is currently closed eastbound from Junc 8 right through to junc 12 but the eastbound is open then the current traffic management situation is most definitely Operation Stack

As has been pointed out the French gave only a couple of hours notice they were closing their borders to ALL humans (unaccompanied freight on trains or ships without drivers is still permitted) there simply wasn't time to implement 'operation Brock' REGARDLESS of what Mr Shaps or any other politician claims.

It may be that they are looking to try and implement Operation Brock - but until the French decide to re-open their borders its all a bit academic anyway because I doubt there is enough space to accommodate several days worth of lorries under Operation Brock and I could well see the Westbound M20 having to be pressed into use too.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Chris5156 wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 15:41
Keiji wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 13:13My vague understanding, though, as far as Stack and Brock relate to the M20, was that while Stack closes the eastbound side and leaves the westbound untouched such that eastbound traffic has to divert onto other roads, Brock closes the eastbound carriageway and replaces the westbound carriageway with a 2+2 contraflow at 50mph. This would seem to me to have little to do with the reason for the closure. Am I missing something here?
Yes, I think you're missing the fact that Operation Brock takes days to set out
Grant Shapps seems to think it takes a few hours and is currently working wonders. He probably thinks the sky is green though.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Apologies, I wasn't very clear in that post.
Yes stack is currently in use due to the immediate nature of last night. By the sounds of it, they are looking at putting Brock into action a weeks earlier than expected (not his words 100%, but the jist of it).
Closing London-bound M20 is surely a last last resort. From what I can remember, closing the M26 (Coast Bound) is the next step if the M20 (Coast Bound) & the lorry park at Manson are full.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Bendo wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 17:42
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 15:41
Keiji wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 13:13My vague understanding, though, as far as Stack and Brock relate to the M20, was that while Stack closes the eastbound side and leaves the westbound untouched such that eastbound traffic has to divert onto other roads, Brock closes the eastbound carriageway and replaces the westbound carriageway with a 2+2 contraflow at 50mph. This would seem to me to have little to do with the reason for the closure. Am I missing something here?
Yes, I think you're missing the fact that Operation Brock takes days to set out
Grant Shapps seems to think it takes a few hours and is currently working wonders. He probably thinks the sky is green though.
It's hard to say how it could currently be working wonders when it hasn't been implemented. I've just checked the cameras on Traffic England and sure enough the barriers aren't out - so we are seeing Operation Brock, not Operation Stack. However, interestingly, there appears to be no traffic at all on the westbound carriageway, so it's possible that has now been closed altogether and HE are planning to put the barriers out tonight. It should take two passes of the zipper truck to move it into position, but how long that will take I don't know - it surely can't move very fast. It was planned to happen overnight on the 27th and 28th which implied to me that a pass of the full 20 miles took a full night.

One piece of evidence to back that up is that Operation Stack hasn't been implemented in order - phases 1, 2 and 4 are currently in operation but not phase 3. That leaves the westbound side entirely free, which is what is required for Operation Brock.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Chris5156 wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 18:10
Bendo wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 17:42
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 15:41
Yes, I think you're missing the fact that Operation Brock takes days to set out
Grant Shapps seems to think it takes a few hours and is currently working wonders. He probably thinks the sky is green though.
It's hard to say how it could currently be working wonders when it hasn't been implemented. I've just checked the cameras on Traffic England and sure enough the barriers aren't out - so we are seeing Operation Brock, not Operation Stack. However, interestingly, there appears to be no traffic at all on the westbound carriageway, so it's possible that has now been closed altogether and HE are planning to put the barriers out tonight. It should take two passes of the zipper truck to move it into position, but how long that will take I don't know - it surely can't move very fast. It was planned to happen overnight on the 27th and 28th which implied to me that a pass of the full 20 miles took a full night.

One piece of evidence to back that up is that Operation Stack hasn't been implemented in order - phases 1, 2 and 4 are currently in operation but not phase 3. That leaves the westbound side entirely free, which is what is required for Operation Brock.
The machine moves at a decent walking pace as I recall. Depending on the exact type and assuming the barrier has been pre-deployed into the central reserve, it might be possible to move it across two lanes in one pass. But there are all the advance signs, tapers, etc., to put out as well. Throw enough resources at it and it should be fairly easily do-able in a single night.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Conekicker wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 18:21The machine moves at a decent walking pace as I recall.
20 miles in a long nightshift sounds about right then, if it's been moved in to place beforehand.
Depending on the exact type and assuming the barrier has been pre-deployed into the central reserve, it might be possible to move it across two lanes in one pass.
Blimey, that would be good going. It would surely need a machine that could span two lanes at once though?
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/oper ... nt-tonight

Confirmation that Op Brock will be in place by Tuesday Morning by 0800.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Shame they hadn't left it out after the test a few days ago.

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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Chris5156 wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 18:30
Conekicker wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 18:21The machine moves at a decent walking pace as I recall.
20 miles in a long nightshift sounds about right then, if it's been moved in to place beforehand.
Depending on the exact type and assuming the barrier has been pre-deployed into the central reserve, it might be possible to move it across two lanes in one pass.
Blimey, that would be good going. It would surely need a machine that could span two lanes at once though?
3km in 20 minutes, up to 5.5m laterally.

https://4316207b-d6a1-4894-b4ac-b2ec3a8 ... 37aaab.pdf

So presumably it's stored in the central reserve some distance back from the offside lane, then shifted in two moves onto the lane 1 / 2 line. So about 4.5 hours to get into position plus moving the machine from to wherever it's parked up. Say 6 hours total?

Edit: I see one of the links above shows a photo with two machines doing the job. Sensible, because if one breaks down part way through a shift and you've only got one on site, you'd be utterly screwed. Expensive though.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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I feel sorry for the poor souls who will be pulling the Christmas Day shifts on Brock. I hope they have a quiet one, get at least double bubble and a day off in lieu as well.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Chris5156 wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 18:30
Conekicker wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 18:21The machine moves at a decent walking pace as I recall.
20 miles in a long nightshift sounds about right then, if it's been moved in to place beforehand.
Depending on the exact type and assuming the barrier has been pre-deployed into the central reserve, it might be possible to move it across two lanes in one pass.
Blimey, that would be good going. It would surely need a machine that could span two lanes at once though?
Have they got two machines? if so one could follow the other at a safe distance and they could both complete the job quite quickly.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Bomag »

Brock was designed to be installed in one shift. The moving of the barrier is not the most time critical aspect - its the crossover TTM. It is possible to put in stack like arrangements on the closed section of the eastbound carriageway with Brock TTM.

I believe the extra signing to enforce HGV entry to Kent won't be added until next week
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by frediculous_biggs »

The barrier will be stored on the hard shoulder in case it is required in the future.
I wonder if it will be stored off the hard shoulder, or on it - potentially removing the HS from the southbound direction. I wonder if they'll be a reduced speed limit because of this
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

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frediculous_biggs wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 13:56
The barrier will be stored on the hard shoulder in case it is required in the future.
I wonder if it will be stored off the hard shoulder, or on it - potentially removing the HS from the southbound direction. I wonder if they'll be a reduced speed limit because of this
If it's the barrier type shown on the BBC article, the best that will be able to be done is to store it towards the back of the hardshoulder, leaving at best room for only cars to pull off the carriageway - but it would be rather tight I suspect.

It might be possible to move it onto the verge where there is no safety fence present but whether there's enough play in the barrier to be able to do that is another matter.

I'd guess the barrier needs a flat surface to be moved on/off from. The verge could never be said to be flat.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Phil »

frediculous_biggs wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 13:56
The barrier will be stored on the hard shoulder in case it is required in the future.
I wonder if it will be stored off the hard shoulder, or on it - potentially removing the HS from the southbound direction. I wonder if they'll be a reduced speed limit because of this
Given the SoS statement about Smart Motorways today I would imagine that either the SPECs enforced speed limit will stay (the easy option) or they will brake up the barrier into sections and leave gaps every mile or so.
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Re: M20 Operation Brock

Post by Conekicker »

Phil wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 17:07
frediculous_biggs wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 13:56
The barrier will be stored on the hard shoulder in case it is required in the future.
I wonder if it will be stored off the hard shoulder, or on it - potentially removing the HS from the southbound direction. I wonder if they'll be a reduced speed limit because of this
Given the SoS statement about Smart Motorways today I would imagine that either the SPECs enforced speed limit will stay (the easy option) or they will brake up the barrier into sections and leave gaps every mile or so.
A gap every mile? Adjacent each existing SOS phone possibly? That would need a terminal section of some description fitting to each barrier end exposed to approaching traffic. £££££££££££
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