Private roads

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Berk
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Private roads

Post by Berk »

A thought just occurred to me. Are there any criteria for ‘private roads’?? Are they simply ones that are unadopted, or do they have other restrictions, such as TRO’s that ban non-residents or other motor traffic??

An example might be the St George’s Hill estate in Surrey. Very close to Weybridge, but almost impossible to drive straight into. That might almost count as a gated community.

But there are others dotted about the country, and even surprisingly in villages too. For instance, close to Shawford next to the M3.

So what makes these streets ‘private’, apart from expensive houses?? And do they have to meet other highway standards - if they want bins to be emptied, and so on??
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Re: Private roads

Post by WHBM »

Colleague lives on one. It's quite a steep hill. Now although they pay the same council tax, without reduction, they don't get any winter maintenance. As a result many there have a 4x4 at the house.

They have a maintenance contractor who does gully cleaning etc, and there's a residents' fund to pay for that. This works out cheaper than having the road Adopted, for which local authority quotes are stratospheric.
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Euan
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Re: Private roads

Post by Euan »

I think they are just simply roads which are not owned and maintained by government be it local or national, but are owned by somebody in private or by a private organisation. It is up to the owner the standard they keep the road to and I would imagine that in many cases it would be in their best interest to keep it in good nick, but it wouldn't be mandatory. Different owners will grant different public access rights, so I'm sure that normally there would be no problem with bin lorries using private roads that are long driveways to reach the rubbish bins.
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Re: Private roads

Post by Bryn666 »

It isn't just posh houses where this happens.

Albany Street in Blackburn is unadopted like most side streets around Corporation Park. It is in a relatively deprived area these days so the road looks like the surface of the moon. Potholes have been filled with bricks and misc hardcore.

The advantage to this is they haven't got a rat run issue...
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Re: Private roads

Post by trickstat »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 07:53 It isn't just posh houses where this happens.

Albany Street in Blackburn is unadopted like most side streets around Corporation Park. It is in a relatively deprived area these days so the road looks like the surface of the moon. Potholes have been filled with bricks and misc hardcore.

The advantage to this is they haven't got a rat run issue...
To be pedantic it appears to be Albany Road-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75620 ... 312!8i6656

I doubt if you'd even use that for a rat-run if you were in a Land Rover Defender!
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Re: Private roads

Post by trickstat »

WHBM wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 06:29 Colleague lives on one. It's quite a steep hill. Now although they pay the same council tax, without reduction, they don't get any winter maintenance. As a result many there have a 4x4 at the house.

They have a maintenance contractor who does gully cleaning etc, and there's a residents' fund to pay for that. This works out cheaper than having the road Adopted, for which local authority quotes are stratospheric.
I assume that when a big developer like Barratts or Taylor Wimpey builds a new estate the cost of adopting the new roads is built into their profit margins. I suspect what has often happened is that builders of smaller developments have neglected to include this or decided that the cost would make the houses uncompetitively expensive. This may not be so much of a problem if it is a short cul-de-sac of 3 or 4 houses where the road is relatively little used and if it is made-up it will probably last decades.
Last edited by trickstat on Mon Feb 11, 2019 16:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Private roads

Post by KeithW »

WHBM wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 06:29 Colleague lives on one. It's quite a steep hill. Now although they pay the same council tax, without reduction, they don't get any winter maintenance. As a result many there have a 4x4 at the house.

They have a maintenance contractor who does gully cleaning etc, and there's a residents' fund to pay for that. This works out cheaper than having the road Adopted, for which local authority quotes are stratospheric.
One of my colleagues on the Dungeness B construction job rented a house oh this road in Littlestone Kent in the 1980's.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.98364 ... 6656?hl=en

The road was private and the local authority wanted something like £7,000 per household to adopt it in 1983. The owners decided it was much cheaper to get a local contractor to patch it as needed. From the GSV picture it looks as if parts of the road were adopted as it has a tarmac surface and streetlights.

Given that the whole area is gravel storm water drainage is not a problem.

Note that in terms of law enforcement this was not classed as a private road as the public has access to it. In Folkestone Lower Sandgate Road used to be a true private road that had toll gates but as I recall the council bought the land and made it into a public park and made part of it pedestrian only.

You can still see where the toll gates and turning spot were here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.07372 ... 6656?hl=en
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Re: Private roads

Post by PhilC »

There is a private housing estate called The Park in Nottingham. The streets are still lit by gas. I think the residents pay an annual charge to cover road repairs and general maintenance, the local authority paying nothing.

This raises an interesting point regarding tax and insurance. Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that insurance is required on all roads to which the public has access, but tax is only required on roads repairable at the public expense. So if a car has a valid SORN declaration it can be legally parked and driven on an unadopted road.
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Re: Private roads

Post by Octaviadriver »

I lived in the semi-bungalow in the first link below from 1956 to 1962, which is on Shrewsbury Avenue in Market Harborough, which was an unadopted road when we lived there and it looks like nothing has changed regarding the status of the road. My parents rented the property prior to buying a house in 1962, so they weren't interested in the road being adopted.

Some of the houses are posh, but the bungalow where we lived wasn't. It was built around 1930 and was cold and damp with no central heating. Further up the road in one of the posher houses lived John Illsley of Dire Straits fame; his father worked in a bank in Market Harborough and I can remember him driving a Vauxhall Wyvern similar to the one in the second link below.

https://goo.gl/maps/XyB8Gj7rktr

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... 730786.jpg
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Re: Private roads

Post by Bryn666 »

trickstat wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:53
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 07:53 It isn't just posh houses where this happens.

Albany Street in Blackburn is unadopted like most side streets around Corporation Park. It is in a relatively deprived area these days so the road looks like the surface of the moon. Potholes have been filled with bricks and misc hardcore.

The advantage to this is they haven't got a rat run issue...
To be pedantic it appears to be Albany Road-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75620 ... 312!8i6656

I doubt if you'd even use that for a rat-run if you were in a Land Rover Defender!
So it is. Shows how often I feel the need to use it, e.g. never. However, a nearby street keeps getting my post as it shares the same first word and the post office seem to be unable to differentiate BB1 from my postcode. :roll:
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Re: Private roads

Post by trickstat »

PhilC wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:42 There is a private housing estate called The Park in Nottingham. The streets are still lit by gas. I think the residents pay an annual charge to cover road repairs and general maintenance, the local authority paying nothing.

This raises an interesting point regarding tax and insurance. Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that insurance is required on all roads to which the public has access, but tax is only required on roads repairable at the public expense. So if a car has a valid SORN declaration it can be legally parked and driven on an unadopted road.
I believe if the unadopted road is publically accessible a SORN'd car cannot be parked or driven on it. A garage or driveway or other area that is not considered publically accessible would be different.
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Re: Private roads

Post by Bryn666 »

Unadopted just means privately maintained, normal road traffic laws still apply unless specifically stated otherwise.
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Re: Private roads

Post by Alderpoint »

The majority of shopping centre access roads and car parks are also private roads - one reason why they often have speed humps which would be all but illegal on a public road.
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Re: Private roads

Post by WHBM »

There are some quite substantial private but public-accessible networks around. Heathrow Airport must have one of the largest systems, some of it can be gated but quite an amount is open access. Canary Wharf is another, always kept immaculate. Both have maintenance contractors. Spadeoak https://www.spadeoak.co.uk/contact-us/ seem to have many of the private road contracts in West London and the Thames Valley.

Just in case you think Adopted roads are maintained better, this street in Salford had trams abandoned in 1947 but still has the tracks over 70 years later

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.48181 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Private roads

Post by KeithW »

trickstat wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:12 I assume that when a big developer like Barratts or Taylor Wimpey builds a new estate the cost of adopted the new roads is built into their profit margins. I suspect what has often happened is that builders of smaller developments have neglected to include this or decided that the cost would make the houses uncompetitively expensive. This may not be so much of a problem if it is a short cul-de-sac of 3 or 4 houses where the road is relatively little used and if it is made-up it will probably last decades.
Wimpey certainly do, the house in South Cambs that I bought as a new build in 1996 was eventually adopted in 1999 after a protracted wrangle between the council and developer as the council argued that the roads as built were 50 mm out of position as defined on the original plans. They were eventually convinced that the cost and disruption of digging up and relaying a couple of hundred metres of road in what was at the end of the day a cul de sac was excessive. The rather cynical surveyor who lived next door to me put it down to the fact that the council had just got a batch of the new high accuracy GPS survey instruments. In the past they would have struggled to find an error of 500 mm.
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Re: Private roads

Post by JF2309 »

I live on one. Its coated in tarmac, a little speed bump at the bottom and you can even have a drive about if you want, nothing is restricted from entering, its a semi-rural cul-de-sac built in the Mid 80s. We pay an annual service charge for our bins, gritting (Although sometimes the Staffs CC gritters still come round) and general maintenance. Its not even particularly posh, it was supposed to be, but the developers only built about a quarter of what was planned before they pulled the plug on the bigger plans.

In summary there is absolutely nothing special about the 3 unadopted roads here.
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Re: Private roads

Post by vlad »

Is there any difference between unadopted roads and private roads?

This road is unadopted (according to the street name sign) yet there's nothing stopping people walking along the road.

This road, on the other hand (and again according to the street name sign), is private. In this case the road doesn't go anywhere so you wouldn't use it except for access to property. The gates aren't that old, either.
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Re: Private roads

Post by nowster »

Doesn't a private road have to be closed from public access for at least a certain amount of time every year?
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Re: Private roads

Post by Truvelo »

nowster wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 19:21 Doesn't a private road have to be closed from public access for at least a certain amount of time every year?
Isn't that just for permissive right of ways?
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Re: Private roads

Post by Raykay »

trickstat wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:09 I believe if the unadopted road is publically accessible a SORN'd car cannot be parked or driven on it.
If it is an unadopted road, then a SORN would be valid and the vehicle can be parked and driven on that road.
A registered vehicle is required, unless exempt, to be licensed - a SORN is one of the exemptions if the vehicle is not used or kept on a public road (a road repairable at public expense).
Insurance would be required if the road was considered to be a road or other public place within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1988.
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