Private roads

[A9NWIL]

Which is coincidental, I knew someone on the development team and they picked 19 simply because it was an odd number and might grab more attention than 20 or 30. This was while construction was still progress so there was a lot of slow traffic such as dumper trucks and fork lifts still around. The limit there now is 30 mph.

So before the roads there were adopted the legal limit was either 30mph or 60mph depending on the street lamps, seeing as they are the default legal speed limits for any single carriageway roads that are both open to the public and arent special roads. The 19mph signs were just non mandatory signs designed to try and slow drivers down.

Isn't it more that on unadopted roads there is no speed limit unless signed otherwise?

Well upthread someone said that the road traffic act applies because these private/unadopted roads are publicly accessible, which would also mean default speed limits of 30mph, 60mph and 70mph depending on type of road and presence of street lamps placed the right distance ect.

[Raykay]

Well upthread someone said that the road traffic act applies because these private/unadopted roads are publicly accessible, which would also mean default speed limits of 30mph, 60mph and 70mph depending on type of road and presence of street lamps placed the right distance ect.

The RTA application can depend on whether the public 'has' access (the authority to access), not necessarily that the public 'can' access (the ability to access).

[KeithW]

Well upthread someone said that the road traffic act applies because these private/unadopted roads are publicly accessible, which would also mean default speed limits of 30mph, 60mph and 70mph depending on type of road and presence of street lamps placed the right distance ect.

Indeed but in the early days of the Cambourne development there were no street lamps installed so the default through a housing estate was the NSL. The council was not prepared to install street lights until the road was adopted although they did end up backtracking on that.

[Euan]

Well upthread someone said that the road traffic act applies because these private/unadopted roads are publicly accessible, which would also mean default speed limits of 30mph, 60mph and 70mph depending on type of road and presence of street lamps placed the right distance ect.

Surely not 70mph as a default speed limit? Unless there are any privately owned motorways or dual carriageways I doubt that would ever be the default speed limit on a private road. Even 60mph is a big ask unless there is a really large estate involved with at least a kilometre or so of fairly uninterrupted and good quality road.

[KeithW]

Surely not 70mph as a default speed limit? Unless there are any privately owned motorways or dual carriageways I doubt that would ever be the default speed limit on a private road. Even 60mph is a big ask unless there is a really large estate involved with at least a kilometre or so of fairly uninterrupted and good quality road.

Dual carriageway does not need to be D2 of course and there are some very large industrial sites that have roads that stretch for miles. The old ICI Wilton and Billingham sites along with Fawley for example but most of them are truly private roads as the public does not have access so the issues is moot anyway. ICI security applied their own speed limits and the penalty for being caught was having to leave your car at the gate and walk the last mile or two to work. That said I will agree true dual carriageways were rare but there is at least one near Tilbury for London Gateway Port.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.51784 ... 6656?hl=en

As I recall a substantial portion of Tees Dock Road from the A1085 to Teessport is also DC. When it was an import centre for Nissan cars they certainly used to tear down it to the storage yard

Come to think of it the old ICI North Tees Road from the A178 to the bulk liquids terminal is a private road open to public access. It has 40 mph limit signs which are probably not legally enforceable and ungated level crossings. I do know that its publically accessible as there is a Mission To Seamen at the end of it and the local cab companies do a roaring trade taking matelots to the fleshpots of Hartlepool and Seaton Carew.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.61630 ... 6656?hl=en

[B9127]

Many years ago I worked as an engineer for a private housing builder - roads were adopted by the councils subject to 12 moths maintenance by the company and an inspection at the end of the 12months - thereafter it became the councils problem subject to the company repairing any problems found on the 12 month inspection - certain roads were Statute Labour roads where if the company built alongside these roads all they had to provide was a kerb and footpath and the council had to widen the road to suit

[montyburns56]

There's Oil Sites Road near the Stanlow Oil Terminal which Shell allowed the public to use until 2008, although I drove down it a few years ago without being stopped.

[Big L]

A combination of the A68 closed by a crash, and a taxi driver that knows 'an alternative route' led me and a number of other drivers for a lovely rally along hilly forest gravel roads that started here, via here and ending here yesterday. Lots of fun.

[Euan]

A combination of the A68 closed by a crash, and a taxi driver that knows 'an alternative route' led me and a number of other drivers for a lovely rally along hilly forest gravel roads that started here, via here and ending here yesterday. Lots of fun.

That would have been a scenic drive. Was the taxi driver authorised to use the private MoD roads? I think part of the route is publicly maintained by Northumberland CC though.

[Big Nick]

Is Rye Road a Private Road given that it is a toll road built for and maintained by the Water Works?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.78027 ... 6656?hl=en

[Moore_O]

Many years ago I worked as an engineer for a private housing builder - roads were adopted by the councils subject to 12 moths maintenance by the company and an inspection at the end of the 12months - thereafter it became the councils problem subject to the company repairing any problems found on the 12 month inspection - certain roads were Statute Labour roads where if the company built alongside these roads all they had to provide was a kerb and footpath and the council had to widen the road to suit

You've reminded me. I used to work for the County Architects Department of a large shire county (let's call it K*nt).

One day someone gave me a project. About a year previously, a private developer in a small town in the Weald of K*nt had been sold the playing fields of the old school, on the condition that they built a new school at the end of a new cul de sac, along with some nice big houses. The developer had done a nice job. The cul de sac had street lights, and some speed tables (is that what they're called - they formed the street crossings over the cul de sac...?), and were waiting for the county highways department to adopt the road.

But there was a problem. The local authority for the small town didn't LIKE streetlights. These were the only streetlights in the town. They had to go.

But there was another problem. According to the county highways authority, you couldn't have speed bumps on an unlit road. So the speed bumps had to go.

But there was another problem. Everyone agreed that it was sensible for there to be some kind of speed bump type-thing on this cul de sac.

Thus it was, that I spent some of that spring doing drawings, preparing contract documents, sending out tenders, for a project to lower two speed humps by exactly 5mm (actually, I can't remember how many millimeters it was) so that they no longer constituted obstructions on an unlit highway. We reused the redundant street lights - on time switches - in the school car park.

There were some other legal ins and outs about surface water drainage into a pond owned by a third party, but that was nothing to do with me.

It was around this time of my career I gave up the idea of winning the Stirling Prize.

[KeithW]

Many years ago I worked as an engineer for a private housing builder - roads were adopted by the councils subject to 12 moths maintenance by the company and an inspection at the end of the 12months - thereafter it became the councils problem subject to the company repairing any problems found on the 12 month inspection - certain roads were Statute Labour roads where if the company built alongside these roads all they had to provide was a kerb and footpath and the council had to widen the road to suit

One of the sharp practises being adopted by some housing developers in recent years is to build 'freehold' houses and NOT have roads adopted. They then set up 'management' companies that charge for road and street maintenance at exorbitant rates. It gets worse because mortgage companies are reluctant to lend on properties with an unregulated service charge. These charges unlike leasehold rents cannot be challenged in court.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... -unadopted
https://hoa.org.uk/2016/11/problems-fac ... elopments/

Caveat - not all estate management companies are bad or fraudulent, I lived on one estate where there was a large area of open land and a playground that was owned and tended by a management company. However that company was owned by the residents association and run by members elected to its board. With no paid officials fees were modest (£10 per annum IRC) and could be challenged. The lease of grazing rights for sheep on the large open field offset most of the costs of maintaining the playground and both could be accessed by kids without venturing on to public roads.

[Big Nick]

I've just found this rather unusual Private Road near Southend in Essex. This lane skirts thru several fields and around villages and farms. It runs from the Southend Road near Great Wakering to what looks like a quarry or landfill on the coast at Barling Marsh.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.55356 ... 6656?hl=en

It even has a form of dual carriageway! https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.55716 ... 6656?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.56627 ... 6656?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.57395 ... 6656?hl=en

To me each lane looks just wide enough for a car or van. They've also narrowed the lane itself in spots so I'm not sure you could get a large dump truck down there.
Barling Landfill Planning Documents date back 2015 but the road has been there longer.

[Truvelo]

At appears that one in Essex was created to avoid heavy vehicles travelling through villages. The road between Barling and Wakering is built up for its entire length.

[the cheesecake man]

One here. There's no logical reason for it to be private. Apart from the gateposts (without gates) it doesn't look any different. Parking is restricted to residents but the only notice of this is the small print on the road sign so I'm not convinced it's enforceable. I also notice GSV avoided it.

A strange one here where only a small section of an otherwise adopted road is unadopted.

[Truvelo]

One here. There's no logical reason for it to be private. Apart from the gateposts (without gates) it doesn't look any different. Parking is restricted to residents but the only notice of this is the small print on the road sign so I'm not convinced it's enforceable. I also notice GSV avoided it.

The streetlighting appears to be adopted as it has the same LED lanterns as the council maintained road. There is a website about that street. http://www.meadowbankavenue.co.uk/the-avenue-story/

[the cheesecake man]

One here. There's no logical reason for it to be private. Apart from the gateposts (without gates) it doesn't look any different. Parking is restricted to residents but the only notice of this is the small print on the road sign so I'm not convinced it's enforceable. I also notice GSV avoided it.

The streetlighting appears to be adopted as it has the same LED lanterns as the council maintained road.

Good spot! The sign clearly states "private road". Maybe it's cheaper and easier for the residents to pay the council for the streetlighting then having their own system (so perhaps lighting has been subcontracted to the council rather than adopted by them, in a similar way that businesses aren't entitled to have their bins emptied by the council but many pay the council to do it anyway).

[Rambo]

This road is privately owned from this point. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3808755 ... 312!8i6656 The housing estate being built on the site of the New World cooker factory in the last 10 years. Note the 15mph speed limit and i believe there aren't any terminal signs going the other way into the council owned 20mph section.

[ManomayLR]

My street is unadopted. We each own the patch of road in front of our house up to the center of the road, and are responsible with its upkeep. My grandma has repeatedly and vocally (although in a very civilized manner) shown her disgust at the condition of the road, and the condition of some rather bad potholes which can be very uncomfortable bumps indeed. We get frozen-over puddles in the winter, but there's not much snow here so our situation isn't that bad.

We have put up resident-parking-only signs, but since the rest of our residential loop (which was adopted) got permit-holder restrictions, we have been worried of increases in people parking here.

We also have the last remaining HPS lights in the loop, the others are all now LED. But I know the council still maintains the lighting on this road as it's included in their 'lighting inventory' and other unadopted roads have been upgraded.

[B4444]

This one Bourley Road, mentioned on the OS maps - public roads topic, is occasionally? closed for Tweseldown races (the course crosses the road), and/or Farnborough air show.