Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

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B1040
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Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by B1040 »

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... s-15827730
Plans to extend the M11 north of Cambridge through the fens have “quietly died” due to lack of funding according to a senior combined authority board member.

Cllr Lewis Herbert, leader of Cambridge City Council, who sits on the board of the combined authority, said some projects, including the extension of the M11, were no longer being considered as priorities by the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority.

The authority initially set aside £1.25 million for its work on the M11, and still says it is an important “long-term” project for the region.
This comes as no surprise to me - but is probably news to James Palmer, the ambitious mayor of the combined authority.
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Euan
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Euan »

Extending the M11 north of Cambridge would definitely not seem as desirable as before given the currently progressing A14 upgrade between Cambridge and Huntingdon which will effectively provide a continuous motorway connection from London to as far as Peterborough. Any proposals for a new motorway in the Fens or up the Lincolnshire coast would probably only be suitable if they were to follow the A16 off of the A1(M) north of Peterborough. If the new A14(M) is not built with provisions for an easy addition of a northern M11 extension the project can probably be written off at least in the medium term and it would be difficult to imagine such a motorway starting from anywhere too far from Girton.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Al__S »

It always struck me as a rather unlikely project- dubious benefits, massive costs, huge opposition from the webbed feet community
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Berk »

Al__S wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 21:49It always struck me as a rather unlikely project- dubious benefits, massive costs, huge opposition from the webbed feet community
I don’t think the opposition would be on environmental grounds so much as the scale of the project. It would be seen as another HS2 by naysayers.

And this time rightly so, IMO. A reasonable standard D2 would suffice.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Berk »

My next thought is why is it that a member of the cabinet appears to be dictating policy?? Isn’t it the elected mayor’s job to do that??

Though once again, upgrading the A47 would be far better value for money (and improve safety).
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by roadtester »

I’m in two minds about this - Cambs’ infrastructure just isn’t keeping pace with development but I don’t particularly want a motorway scything through the empty Fenlands near my house.

I doubt this will go away though - the pace of growth in population and so on won’t allow it to be ignored.

The Cambs and Peterborough mayor is quite pro-active on the development of infrastructure - he seems to have grasped why this is crucial to the area rather than caving to NIMBYs. One project that he has pushed and which is much closer to realisation is a new railway station at Soham.

https://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/news ... e-9061482/

That said, it remains to be seen whether the mayor has the power and influence to mobilise the sorts of resources that are required for other much bigger transport schemes that are desperately needed here.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

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Euan wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 21:11 Extending the M11 north of Cambridge would definitely not seem as desirable as before given the currently progressing A14 upgrade between Cambridge and Huntingdon which will effectively provide a continuous motorway connection from London to as far as Peterborough. Any proposals for a new motorway in the Fens or up the Lincolnshire coast would probably only be suitable if they were to follow the A16 off of the A1(M) north of Peterborough. If the new A14(M) is not built with provisions for an easy addition of a northern M11 extension the project can probably be written off at least in the medium term and it would be difficult to imagine such a motorway starting from anywhere too far from Girton.
But that wasn't necessarily what was on offer - a possibility was a new route from Huntingdon to Wisbech to join up with the A47 to King's Lynn - a very sensible suggestion to try and pull Wisbech out of the deprivation that it suffers from...
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Berk »

c2R wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 23:56
Euan wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 21:11Extending the M11 north of Cambridge would definitely not seem as desirable as before given the currently progressing A14 upgrade between Cambridge and Huntingdon which will effectively provide a continuous motorway connection from London to as far as Peterborough. Any proposals for a new motorway in the Fens or up the Lincolnshire coast would probably only be suitable if they were to follow the A16 off of the A1(M) north of Peterborough. If the new A14(M) is not built with provisions for an easy addition of a northern M11 extension the project can probably be written off at least in the medium term and it would be difficult to imagine such a motorway starting from anywhere too far from Girton.
But that wasn't necessarily what was on offer - a possibility was a new route from Huntingdon to Wisbech to join up with the A47 to King's Lynn - a very sensible suggestion to try and pull Wisbech out of the deprivation that it suffers from...
Has the whole scheme been lost in translation - between the cabinet and the Mayor??
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by roadtester »

c2R wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 23:56 But that wasn't necessarily what was on offer - a possibility was a new route from Huntingdon to Wisbech to join up with the A47 to King's Lynn - a very sensible suggestion to try and pull Wisbech out of the deprivation that it suffers from...
Yes “northern M11 extension” makes it sound a bit grand.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Mattptb »

It never looked like a realistic option really. However the A10 north of Cambridge needs some serious work and perhaps duelling this possibly all the way to Kings Lynn will help.
Hopefully the A47 will eventually be fully fuelled from Peterborough to Gt Yarmouth but that is going to take a long time, Inguess upgrading established roads like the A16/A17 and possibly the A141 would be a better use of money.
That said there is probably scope to build a better direct link from Bar Hill to Chatteris which currently involves traversing some rather iffy B roads at the moment and I am sure the Longstanton/Northstowe estates are going to need a better bypass in the future which could be a starting point for this project.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Al__S »

well the B1050 from Bar Hill to Northstowe is being duelled. But turning that into an upgraded through route seems foolhardy, even the finished Bar Hill interchange is unlikely to cope with the traffic once Northstowe is completed.

Dueled/Grade Seperated A10, A47, A16 and A17 would seem to me to do most of what's needed. Upgraded A141 and A142 (no need for duel/GSJ with these though)
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

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Al__S wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 06:56 well the B1050 from Bar Hill to Northstowe is being duelled. But turning that into an upgraded through route seems foolhardy, even the finished Bar Hill interchange is unlikely to cope with the traffic once Northstowe is completed.

Dueled/Grade Seperated A10, A47, A16 and A17 would seem to me to do most of what's needed. Upgraded A141 and A142 (no need for duel/GSJ with these though)
Any or all of those may be desirable but none of them address the specific issue of opening up the hinterland of Cambridge towards Wisbech in order to uncork the massive development potential that would bring in the context of the growing strength of the regional economy.

The current journey across the Fens is tortuous and open to disruption by frequent flooding at Welney Wash. Any sort of permanent all-weather route would do the job - it doesn't have to be a full blue-line extension of the M11.

There are also hopes for a reopening of the old railway line to Wisbech to open up journey possibilities such as Cambridge commuting.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Bryn666 »

The A16 to Boston and the A47 would strike me as the high value routes to focus on, with the A10 third.

I don't think any of these warrant full blown motorway but just overtaking lanes and safer junction designs would be a vast improvement.

Tractors are the big issue as they can't move over to let others pass thanks to the drainage ditches of doom everywhere.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Euan »

This may or may not have been directly brought up before, but could there potentially be concern that given the topography of the area a new road or motorway might sink into the ground? I would imagine there would be additional costs in trying to prevent that from happening which would take the project over an acceptable budget. More realistically I think that the existing main roads would see upgrades including the ones mentioned above.

One of the other reasons for the M11 extension "dying" could just simply be a lack of clarity - whether it should go to Boston, King's Lynn or Norwich.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by KeithW »

I would have thought that a far more useful and realistic plan would be dualling the A10 at least as far as Littleport. This is a major commuter route into Cambridge and has an AADF approaching 20k and is still increasing.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Fenlander »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 08:17 The A16 to Boston and the A47 would strike me as the high value routes to focus on, with the A10 third.

I don't think any of these warrant full blown motorway but just overtaking lanes and safer junction designs would be a vast improvement.

Tractors are the big issue as they can't move over to let others pass thanks to the drainage ditches of doom everywhere.
A17 too, even the odd bit of S2+1 would help there if dualling is a step too far. A lot of the time the tractors can pull over but chose not to, most journeys I see them sail straight past a layby where they could have driven through it and let at least a few vehicles by (mostly lorries as cars can more easily get by in the gaps) or even pull in the layby and wait a few seconds while the whole queue gets past.
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

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roadtester wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 23:42 One project that he has pushed and which is much closer to realisation is a new railway station at Soham.

https://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/news ... ke-9061482
Just looked at the lie of the land there - the old station site in Soham - where the line reduces to single - is still vacant, so no problem in putting a station there. But in terms of commuting from Soham to Cambridge, which is what many local residents would want, the missing side of the triangular railway junction to the north-east of Newmarket would have to be reinstated. The formation appears to be more-or-less intact. So why is this not being moved forward?
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:02
roadtester wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 23:42 One project that he has pushed and which is much closer to realisation is a new railway station at Soham.

https://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/news ... ke-9061482
Just looked at the lie of the land there - the old station site in Soham - where the line reduces to single - is still vacant, so no problem in putting a station there. But in terms of commuting from Soham to Cambridge, which is what many local residents would want, the missing side of the triangular railway junction to the north-east of Newmarket would have to be reinstated. The formation appears to be more-or-less intact. So why is this not being moved forward?
Why has a town the size of Soham not got a station any more, yet Dullingham does?! Would no doubt be unpopular with some but is a Newmarket Parkway near the triangular junction likely to have any merit?
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by nowster »

Euan wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 08:36 This may or may not have been directly brought up before, but could there potentially be concern that given the topography of the area a new road or motorway might sink into the ground?
A piled raft might be possible. The M60 between junctions 20 and 21 is of that sort of construction because it's through peat bog ("Alkrington Moss" in the local lingo).
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Re: Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

Post by Bryn666 »

nowster wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:30
Euan wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 08:36 This may or may not have been directly brought up before, but could there potentially be concern that given the topography of the area a new road or motorway might sink into the ground?
A piled raft might be possible. The M60 between junctions 20 and 21 is of that sort of construction because it's through peat bog ("Alkrington Moss" in the local lingo).
Unlike the M62 J11-12, "Alky Moss" isn't as lumpy either.
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