Northern M11 extension into the Fens is to be quietly allowed to die

[SouthWest Philip]

Not an east coast motorway to be sure but a usable all year road from the M11/A14 to Wisbech, KIngs Lynn the A1 and Humber Bridge.

Yes, in some ways, tying the need for that sort of upgrade to the wider fantasy scheme of the East Coast Motorway is probably counter-productive.

Indeed. Coastal Lincolnshire would have been perfectly well served by having made the new-build A16 from Peterborough through to Boston (and then preferably beyond) dual carriageway, given this would tie in with the A1(M). That might even have been a case then for extending the A16 south-westwards (out of zone) by taking over the A1139/A605/A45 to the M1 at Northampton.

[crb11]

If what is wanted is a dual carriageway commuter road linking Cambridge and King's Lynn, opening up the Fens, then taking a route approximate to the B1050/A141/A47 from Bar Hill via Chatteris, March & Wisbech looks like a viable alternative to upgrading the A10 via Ely. One advantage of going this way is that it would also fully take care of the A47 between Guyhirn and King's Lynn, therefore improving two routes for the price of one. As for road numbering, perhaps reroute the A10 this way or give it a nice vacant number like A150?

I think there's definitely something to be said for that. On the other hand, the dualling of the A10 probably still would need to be done anyway, so it might be best to do that and then have some sort of new-build striking out across the Fens to Wisbech from Ely or Littleport, which gets us back to something more along the lines of upgrading or replacing the A1101.

I think I'm more with Philip - the route he proposes would also provide a boost to Chatteris and March which need it, and could potentially be done much cheaper if you built towards Mepal and plugged into the existing A142 there with a few improvements further north. I'd also be reluctant to send everything down the A10 due to the existing problems at the Milton interchange, unless that can made freeflow.

[Al__S]

I'd also be reluctant to send everything down the A10 due to the existing problems at the Milton interchange, unless that can made freeflow.

This is a good point- though whether even the rebuilt Bar Hill junction will cope with just the addition of Northstowe traffic is still to be seen.

[camflyer]

One project that he has pushed and which is much closer to realisation is a new railway station at Soham.

https://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/news ... ke-9061482

Just looked at the lie of the land there - the old station site in Soham - where the line reduces to single - is still vacant, so no problem in putting a station there. But in terms of commuting from Soham to Cambridge, which is what many local residents would want, the missing side of the triangular railway junction to the north-east of Newmarket would have to be reinstated. The formation appears to be more-or-less intact. So why is this not being moved forward?

Reinstating the west curve at Newmarket would seem like a no-brainer, probably wouldn't cost that much and would open up a lot of direct routes in the area (e.g. Soham-Cambridge, Newmarket to Ely and Norwich). I can only assume that the problem is that the land is owned by the racing industry and they are always against any local development which isn't directly horsey related.

[B1018 A120 M11]

Well, I'm not sure about now, but I remember looking at the disused West Curve in Newmarket a few years ago and the embankment looked intact then. I think there was a small bridge missing, but the abutments were still there — it literally looked like you could put a new bridge on top, relay track and off you go.

Maybe not in 2019, though...

EDIT: You never know how up to date Google's aerial view is, either (the colour of the car on my drive on Google tells me that the view around my house hasn't been upgraded since about 2003...) but from this, the formation looks reasonably intact. Not built on, anyway, like so many other useful former bits of track.

[rasingram2]

I had a walk around there in the second half of last year, and from ground level it looks exactly as you say. How sturdy the foundations are, and if the modern requirements would be met by the existing formation are another question, quite beyond me. Does anyone know who owns the embankment? Was it sold off? I think that might a bigger issue, especially since the Soham Station public information event said the design was made to fit in existing NR land to make it easier to achieve.

[Euan]

I'd also be reluctant to send everything down the A10 due to the existing problems at the Milton interchange, unless that can made freeflow.

I would imagine that the interchange at Milton itself would not be able to be adapted very easily in order to create freeflow between the A10 and the A14 in the direction of Girton. Additional slip roads bypassing the junction to the north west would be the easiest solution, although even this would have its difficulties. A northbound slip linking to the A10 would be straightforward enough, but where is there room for a southbound flyover both on the A10 and the A14? If the interchange was made freeflow then I think as well the A10 Milton bypass would need to be upgraded so that it could cope with all of the new traffic.

[KeithW]

I would imagine that the interchange at Milton itself would not be able to be adapted very easily in order to create freeflow between the A10 and the A14 in the direction of Girton. Additional slip roads bypassing the junction to the north west would be the easiest solution, although even this would have its difficulties. A northbound slip linking to the A10 would be straightforward enough, but where is there room for a southbound flyover both on the A10 and the A14? If the interchange was made freeflow then I think as well the A10 Milton bypass would need to be upgraded so that it could cope with all of the new traffic.

The reality is that with continuing development along the A10 axis and rising traffic levels the bullet is going to have to be bitten sooner or later. Traffic levels north of Milton are up around 20k and the junction already has problems as there is a high volume of turning traffic. Given that the proposed Oxford Cambridge Expressway will inevitably add more traffic onto the A14 Cambridge Northern bypass I suspect that at a minimum there will be a need to go to 3 lanes as far east as the A11/A14 split.

How you manage to remodel the Milton interchange while maintaining traffic on the existing routes is of course another matter and one which I would leave to the experts That said I suspect its trivial in comparison with any plan to drive an extension of the M11 towards Wisbech given that the new A14 under construction will have its junction at almost the same position as you would need for the extension and that the old A14 will be downgraded and in use as a LAR.

The reality is that dualling the existing A10 would benefit a lot of people and attract less opposition than driving another new road across country in the Cambridge area. There are long standing problems around the A1101 in the area of Welney Wash Road which in a wet winter can be blocked for weeks or even months so I suspect that improving that would be politically relatively straightforward. In fact the local MP and others have been asking for this to be done for years.

https://www.cambstimes.co.uk/motoring/a ... -1-5342588
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/weather/ph ... -1-5340528

[Berk]

So here we are. The news is official at last.

The mayor does not believe he can develop a business case or funding model to extend the M11 before 2030, so he wishes to develop the A10 instead. Probably with a view to dualling it.

That’s absolutely fine, but you could do almost as well by building a short spur road - say from Littleport to Wimblington - linking the A10 and A141, improve capacity on the A141, and build a new dual stretch of A47.

You’d have almost the same benefits as a motorway, and it would make it far easier to access the A17 to Lincoln from Cambridge.

[Euan]

So here we are. The news is official at last.

The mayor does not believe he can develop a business case or funding model to extend the M11 before 2030, so he wishes to develop the A10 instead. Probably with a view to dualling it.

That’s absolutely fine, but you could do almost as well by building a short spur road - say from Littleport to Wimblington - linking the A10 and A141, improve capacity on the A141, and build a new dual stretch of A47.

You’d have almost the same benefits as a motorway, and it would make it far easier to access the A17 to Lincoln from Cambridge.

I would agree with that. The priority in the short term should be improving the capacity of the A10 north of Cambridge rather than extending the M11 straight away. Although north of Cambridge none of the A10 is currently D2, so it would be about 40 miles of dualling that would be needed. Hopefully if the entire road was dualled it would all be funded at once and we would not end up in a situation where only part of the road was dualled before any loss of commitment.

[KeithW]

I would agree with that. The priority in the short term should be improving the capacity of the A10 north of Cambridge rather than extending the M11 straight away. Although north of Cambridge none of the A10 is currently D2, so it would be about 40 miles of dualling that would be needed. Hopefully if the entire road was dualled it would all be funded at once and we would not end up in a situation where only part of the road was dualled before any loss of commitment.

Given the relatively low traffic levels north of Littleport I think that would be a hard sell. In the short term I would push for dualling to Littleport and take a look at upgrading the A142 and A141 to the A47. Witchford, Mepal and Chatteris all have been bypassed albeit only S2. Traffic on the A142 and A141 north of Chatteris is at 15k already pushing towards the limits for S2 and the impending closure of the A14 viaduct at Huntingdon will probably push even more traffic that way and might serve as a useful part of the justification.

[thatapanydude]

I would rather money is spent on extending the A142 from Chatteris to Peterborough (A1260 at Hampton). This could open up a faster way for traffic from the fens to access the north via the A1. Moreover, the road could also double up as a nice shortcut for traffic heading between Felixstowe and the A1 at Peterborough.

[roadtester]

I would rather money is spent on extending the A142 from Chatteris to Peterborough (A1260 at Hampton). This could open up a faster way for traffic from the fens to access the north via the A1. Moreover, the road could also double up as a nice shortcut for traffic heading between Felixstowe and the A1 at Peterborough.

Ah yes agreed - that would be a very useful improvement. At the moment, it's ether an indirect dog-leg via March or a zig-zag on lesser roads.

[marconaf]

A10 to Ely badly needs dualling, not sure about GSJ, that in many places would have to be a new road.

The bypass to Littleport is much lighter used - and with the service/shops recently built I suspect widening is now impossible.

Beyond Littleport to K.Lynn there is no need for dual, its fast and with lots of overtaking opportunities for tractor etc.

But dual to Ely and sort Milton must be priorities for Cambridge.

As for a new road, I get that driving a new road N to March/Wisbeach would transform the region and would logically link to A47 and A17, but a uncomplicated DC, and having walked in the area, with the fens and drainage - then uncomplicated doesnt really fit!

Any ideas definitely need to stay away from East Coast Motorway fantasies although an E.Coast Expressway upgrade of A17/16/15 roads would be a good project, but thats for National Govt rather than Cambridge & Pboro (which already have the A14 & A1!)

[KeithW]

I would rather money is spent on extending the A142 from Chatteris to Peterborough (A1260 at Hampton). This could open up a faster way for traffic from the fens to access the north via the A1. Moreover, the road could also double up as a nice shortcut for traffic heading between Felixstowe and the A1 at Peterborough.

There already is a strategic road from Felixstowe to the A1 - the A14. Routing traffic via Chatteris is about 10 miles shorter but would require building 40 miles of new HQDC. Given that HE are still building the new A14 there is zero chance of this happening and I dont think the good people of Chatteris would appreciate large numbers of HGV's going round their bypass. Then there is the small matter that the A1260 is already pretty heavily loaded - as high as 60k in places.

If you want the route from Norfolk to the A1 and the North upgraded, and I would like to see that, the way to go is improving the A47 which is already part of the strategic road network.

[crb11]

So here we are. The news is official at last.

The mayor does not believe he can develop a business case or funding model to extend the M11 before 2030, so he wishes to develop the A10 instead. Probably with a view to dualling it.

That’s absolutely fine, but you could do almost as well by building a short spur road - say from Littleport to Wimblington - linking the A10 and A141, improve capacity on the A141, and build a new dual stretch of A47.

You’d have almost the same benefits as a motorway, and it would make it far easier to access the A17 to Lincoln from Cambridge.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what benefits would this have over the existing A142/A141 route from Ely, which looks slightly shorter to me? Also, with all these plans, do we need to do something about bypassing Wisbech to give access to the northern A1101 without having to go through the town? I've gone this way to the A17 from Cambridge (both via A10/A142/A141/A47 and via A10/A1101) and that's been the bottleneck.

[KeithW]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what benefits would this have over the existing A142/A141 route from Ely, which looks slightly shorter to me? Also, with all these plans, do we need to do something about bypassing Wisbech to give access to the northern A1101 without having to go through the town? I've gone this way to the A17 from Cambridge (both via A10/A142/A141/A47 and via A10/A1101) and that's been the bottleneck.

I would second that proposal an improved A142 and A141 with a western bypass of Wisbech sounds eminently sensible and provides good access to the A47 and A17 from Ely.

[doebag]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what benefits would this have over the existing A142/A141 route from Ely, which looks slightly shorter to me? Also, with all these plans, do we need to do something about bypassing Wisbech to give access to the northern A1101 without having to go through the town? I've gone this way to the A17 from Cambridge (both via A10/A142/A141/A47 and via A10/A1101) and that's been the bottleneck.

There was talk around here a couple of years ago about a Northern Wisbech by-pass, from the B198 Lynn Road to the A1101 Sutton Road, with a new bridge over the Ouse. Not sure how serious it was, or if it was just some politician saying 'we need this' without any further explanation. But it was in the local press.

[roadtester]

I would rather money is spent on extending the A142 from Chatteris to Peterborough (A1260 at Hampton). This could open up a faster way for traffic from the fens to access the north via the A1. Moreover, the road could also double up as a nice shortcut for traffic heading between Felixstowe and the A1 at Peterborough.

There already is a strategic road from Felixstowe to the A1 - the A14. Routing traffic via Chatteris is about 10 miles shorter but would require building 40 miles of new HQDC. Given that HE are still building the new A14 there is zero chance of this happening and I dont think the good people of Chatteris would appreciate large numbers of HGV's going round their bypass. Then there is the small matter that the A1260 is already pretty heavily loaded - as high as 60k in places.

I don't think this is really about long distance traffic from Felixstowe across to the A1 - I think it's more about improving local links for people to get between Cambridge, Ely, Peterborough etc.. Peterborough is not very far from me but it's a pain to get to.

[KeithW]

I don't think this is really about long distance traffic from Felixstowe across to the A1 - I think it's more about improving local links for people to get between Cambridge, Ely, Peterborough etc.. Peterborough is not very far from me but it's a pain to get to.

I understand that, one of my friends lives just outside Ely and works in Peterborough which is at best over an hours drive for a 30 mile journey. I was concerned that we could end up getting sidetracked if a new route from Felixstowe to Peterborough was thrown into the mix.