Development like this doesn't lend itself to bus routes either, as there are no centrally focused A to B travel patterns. There is no competition with buses in Shrewsbury and the incumbent operator (Arriva) is somewhat lazy with regard to it's bus routes, so there will be nothing without an c80k per year subsidy - which if developer money is used usually runs out after 3 to 5 years.
Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Well, there seems to be a cycle/pedestrian path along its full length. Only on one side though; the Alderley Edge Bypass has one on both sides. As ever, the roundabouts involve quite lengthy detours to cross the incoming side-roads. However, this is the thing - would cyclists use more sophisticated arrangements ? Also would there be cycle traffic at a level to justify such arrangements ? From what I see on the Alderley Edge Bypass - No.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
- Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Surely the phase-out of ICE is simply an evolution in propulsion technology, and doesn't, of itself, increase or decrease the usage of active transport modes?Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 22:06Indeed, it sounds like they've removed them. So that's another load of development going to be slums in 20 years when ICE vehicles are started to be phased out and nothing quick and simple that doesn't involve privatised bus operators exists to replace them. Slow clap there once again.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
- Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
I like the look of this new road. I don't know the traffic situation well enough to judge whether S2 is adequate, but, if so, then the non-GSJ design is good. I offer the following minor comments -
1. The only roundabout I have much concern with is the 5-arm one, but it's probably adequate since it has generous flaring (most approaches are 3 lane - all should be) and a 3-lane circulatory (just on the borderline of being too wide!). I believe its diameter is too large, potentially causing the usual problem of entry-difficulty.
2. Most of the other roundabouts should also be further approach-flared and size-restricted.
3. The double roundabout at the other end is OK: better than trying to cram all the roads onto just one. However, I would have tried to push the two roundabouts a bit farther apart, and the inter-roundabout connector should be further flared to 3 lanes at each give-way or built as D3: filling up of the connector must be avoided. If there are going to be queues they must be at give-ways where there is unhindered stacking space.
4. The S2+1 piece is nice. On the pure S2 lengths I would create a wide permissive central reservation (parallel dashed lines 1m apart) for lane-drift safety. Also I'm surprised that certain of the curves haven't earned a solid centre-line line on one side.
5. There is virtually no future-proofing.
6. Speed limit: NSL is ok, wouldn't be disappointed with 60 either - it's not a very long road!
[edit: Oops ... UK single carriageway NSL is 60, as pointed out below - thanks!].
It's interesting that the double roundabout is referred to as a 'dumbbell'. I was searching for the GSJ for a while!
1. The only roundabout I have much concern with is the 5-arm one, but it's probably adequate since it has generous flaring (most approaches are 3 lane - all should be) and a 3-lane circulatory (just on the borderline of being too wide!). I believe its diameter is too large, potentially causing the usual problem of entry-difficulty.
2. Most of the other roundabouts should also be further approach-flared and size-restricted.
3. The double roundabout at the other end is OK: better than trying to cram all the roads onto just one. However, I would have tried to push the two roundabouts a bit farther apart, and the inter-roundabout connector should be further flared to 3 lanes at each give-way or built as D3: filling up of the connector must be avoided. If there are going to be queues they must be at give-ways where there is unhindered stacking space.
4. The S2+1 piece is nice. On the pure S2 lengths I would create a wide permissive central reservation (parallel dashed lines 1m apart) for lane-drift safety. Also I'm surprised that certain of the curves haven't earned a solid centre-line line on one side.
5. There is virtually no future-proofing.
6. Speed limit: NSL is ok, wouldn't be disappointed with 60 either - it's not a very long road!
[edit: Oops ... UK single carriageway NSL is 60, as pointed out below - thanks!].
It's interesting that the double roundabout is referred to as a 'dumbbell'. I was searching for the GSJ for a while!
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Fri Mar 05, 2021 01:20, edited 1 time in total.
- Chris Bertram
- Member
- Posts: 15744
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
- Location: Birmingham, England
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
NSL on S2 roads *is* 60!Peter Freeman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 05:57 I like the look of this new road. I don't know the traffic situation well enough to judge whether S2 is adequate, but, if so, then the non-GSJ design is good. I offer the following minor comments -
1. The only roundabout I have much concern with is the 5-arm one, but it's probably adequate since it has generous flaring (most approaches are 3 lane - all should be) and a 3-lane circulatory (just on the borderline of being too wide!). I believe its diameter is too large, potentially causing the usual problem of entry-difficulty.
2. Most of the other roundabouts should also be further approach-flared and size-restricted.
3. The double roundabout at the other end is OK: better than trying to cram all the roads onto just one. However, I would have tried to push the two roundabouts just a bit farther apart; and the inter-roundabout connector should be further flared to 3 lanes at each give-way, in case the connector fills up.
4. The S2+1 piece is nice. On the pure S2 lengths I would create a wide permissive central reservation (parallel dashed lines 1m apart) for lane-drift safety. Also I'm surprised that certain of the curves haven't earned a solid centre-line line on one side.
5. Speed limit: NSL ok, wouldn't be disappointed with 60 either - it's not a very long road!
6. There is virtually no future-proofing.
It's interesting that the double roundabout is referred to as a 'dumbbell'. I was searching for the GSJ for a while!
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
-
- Member
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
- Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Indeed. No one's proposing to ban Teslas and Nissan LEAFs along with ICEs, and the technology will be 20 years ahead of where it is now.Peter Freeman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 05:00Surely the phase-out of ICE is simply an evolution in propulsion technology, and doesn't, of itself, increase or decrease the usage of active transport modes?Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 22:06Indeed, it sounds like they've removed them. So that's another load of development going to be slums in 20 years when ICE vehicles are started to be phased out and nothing quick and simple that doesn't involve privatised bus operators exists to replace them. Slow clap there once again.
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Quite apart from cities will have gone down the route of making driving in any private vehicle difficult by then, because of numpties who think "no emissions" means everyone can drive again and we'll have gridlock, meaning if you don't live near a railway or decent walking/cycle route you're going to be rather stuck even with your shiny Tesla.jackal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:16Indeed. No one's proposing to ban Teslas and Nissan LEAFs along with ICEs, and the technology will be 20 years ahead of where it is now.Peter Freeman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 05:00Surely the phase-out of ICE is simply an evolution in propulsion technology, and doesn't, of itself, increase or decrease the usage of active transport modes?Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 22:06
Indeed, it sounds like they've removed them. So that's another load of development going to be slums in 20 years when ICE vehicles are started to be phased out and nothing quick and simple that doesn't involve privatised bus operators exists to replace them. Slow clap there once again.
None so blind as those that will not see.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Hmm, I don't think it will be quite as bad as you foresee, but congestion, certainly at peak periods, will always be with us as we have done nothing of real significance on roads for the last 30 years. Also, I would have thought we must surely be near "peak car" in relation to the population size and who wants to get to work.
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Interesting on the consultation brochure that the cost has risen from £54 million to £84 million. I did say last year when I started the thread I thought £54 million was a bit low.
The M25 - The road to nowhere
- haymansafc
- Member
- Posts: 4808
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 16:52
- Location: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Thanks for sharing those links, Tomuk.
If the YouTube visualisation is anything to go by, my initial impression is generally positive. Surprised and happy to see an S2+1 section, too.
I'm happy to see what appears to be a separate pathway for pedestrians and cyclists. It's a safer option for all road users as far as I'm concerned. Let's just hope if that's in the final design, it will be utilised correctly.
One point I'd like to make is that a bypass by it's very definition is to 'a road passing round a town or its centre to provide an alternative route for through traffic'. It shouldn't be used as what is all too common with new routes these days – development. It should be protected from this otherwise creating houses or industrial units on top of it would take away much of the whole reason for it's construction in the first place.
The only two criticisms I have are those already mentioned. There doesn't appear to be much in the way of future-proofing (i.e – widening opportunities – especially with S2 bridges) and I'd question adding a fifth arm to the roundabout at the A5/western end. With plenty of experience of the nearby Bayston Hill (Dobbies) Roundabout over the years, they're not exactly the safest or easiest to navigate. Even with traffic lights at times. I'd much rather this western end be upgraded to a GSJ but I accept that's likely out of the question when it comes to finances.
If the YouTube visualisation is anything to go by, my initial impression is generally positive. Surprised and happy to see an S2+1 section, too.
I'm happy to see what appears to be a separate pathway for pedestrians and cyclists. It's a safer option for all road users as far as I'm concerned. Let's just hope if that's in the final design, it will be utilised correctly.
One point I'd like to make is that a bypass by it's very definition is to 'a road passing round a town or its centre to provide an alternative route for through traffic'. It shouldn't be used as what is all too common with new routes these days – development. It should be protected from this otherwise creating houses or industrial units on top of it would take away much of the whole reason for it's construction in the first place.
The only two criticisms I have are those already mentioned. There doesn't appear to be much in the way of future-proofing (i.e – widening opportunities – especially with S2 bridges) and I'd question adding a fifth arm to the roundabout at the A5/western end. With plenty of experience of the nearby Bayston Hill (Dobbies) Roundabout over the years, they're not exactly the safest or easiest to navigate. Even with traffic lights at times. I'd much rather this western end be upgraded to a GSJ but I accept that's likely out of the question when it comes to finances.
The journey is never over until the arrival.
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
YOu can bet your bottom dollar that development will soon commence on or near the new road as night follows day. Every roundabout will be use to give access, and probably some more roundabouts will be built. The biggest problem with our roads is the single split between Highways England's Strategic Road Network, and the local road network, there is nothing in between. The last government seemed to be cottoning on to this but so far damn all has been done. The last Labour government also reduced t he SRN by about a third and sloughed it off onto councils to deal with as best they could without any extra funding at all. Transport in the UK is the biggest failure of government in my lifetime so far, and the greeny blob are working hard to make it impossible to build anything at all, even a path down your garden !
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
I've said this a lot lately - bring back the Restriction Of Ribbon Development Act. That'll put a stop to tin boxes going up.
As for the A5 roundabout a flyover is possible as it's a trunk road so central government can cough up when it becomes overloaded.
As for the A5 roundabout a flyover is possible as it's a trunk road so central government can cough up when it becomes overloaded.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/tra ... submitted/
Earth bank to be replaced with a viaduct, to the annoyance of some locals who wanted the bank to protect them from flooding.
Earth bank to be replaced with a viaduct, to the annoyance of some locals who wanted the bank to protect them from flooding.
AKA M5 Driver
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
Application now live on Shropshire Council Website
https://www.shropshire.gov.uk/planning/
App No 21/00924/EIA
It runs to 604 documents.
One interesting thing it will be a primary route and be an extension of the A53
https://www.shropshire.gov.uk/planning/
App No 21/00924/EIA
It runs to 604 documents.
One interesting thing it will be a primary route and be an extension of the A53
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
That is surprisingly logical. The closely spaced roundabouts at the eastern end are a bit silly but overall it's pretty nice for an LA scheme.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:52
- Location: Exits 9 & 10, M1 East, Melbourne, Australia
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
The Shropshire Star article shows the S2+1 section on the viaduct having a non-permissive wide centre-line treatment. That's much like a new-build Australian road might have, although this one appears to have only about 50cm separation. I wonder whether they read my comment up-thread ?!IAN wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 18:40 https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/tra ... submitted/
Earth bank to be replaced with a viaduct, to the annoyance of some locals who wanted the bank to protect them from flooding.
I haven't waded through the mass of other documentation to see whether there are any other wide centre-lines, eg. on the pure S2 stretches.
These markings, becoming prevalent on AU's long-distance S2 roads, have proven to be effective in reducing the occurrence of head-on collisions.
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
According to the plans it is just double solid white lines on the viaduct 1013.1a.Peter Freeman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 03:34The Shropshire Star article shows the S2+1 section on the viaduct having a non-permissive wide centre-line treatment. That's much like a new-build Australian road might have, although this one appears to have only about 50cm separation. I wonder whether they read my comment up-thread ?!IAN wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 18:40 https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/tra ... submitted/
Earth bank to be replaced with a viaduct, to the annoyance of some locals who wanted the bank to protect them from flooding.
I haven't waded through the mass of other documentation to see whether there are any other wide centre-lines, eg. on the pure S2 stretches.
These markings, becoming prevalent on AU's long-distance S2 roads, have proven to be effective in reducing the occurrence of head-on collisions.
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
The signage for the Ellesmere Dumbbell Junction. Not the clearest in the world is it.
- SouthWest Philip
- Member
- Posts: 3478
- Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2002 19:35
- Location: Evesham, Worcestershire
Re: Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
The inconsistent use of 'All through routes' and 'All other routes' is not helpful.
The third sign seems to be following pre-Guildford rules regarding patches whereas the others at least get that bit right.
And all four signs miss the break from at least one roundabout.