I would say Walton Bridge, in 2013, would be the contender. It's about the same length as Hammersmith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walton_Br ... xth_bridge
Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
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Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
It took from 1940 to 2013 to get a proper resolution with temporary structures limping on through year after year of indecision and inaction.WHBM wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:41I would say Walton Bridge, in 2013, would be the contender. It's about the same length as Hammersmith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walton_Br ... xth_bridge
Doesn't really help further the argument that London DOES take river crossings seriously to my mind!
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
And both Walton and the QE2 Bridges are outside Greater London.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:44It took from 1940 to 2013 to get a proper resolution with temporary structures limping on through year after year of indecision and inaction.WHBM wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:41I would say Walton Bridge, in 2013, would be the contender. It's about the same length as Hammersmith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walton_Br ... xth_bridge
Doesn't really help further the argument that London DOES take river crossings seriously to my mind!
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Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
There have been 2 central London foot bridges built around 2000 (Millennium and Hungerford) and a LOT of rail tunnels under the Thames built during the last 25 years too - Jubilee Line X3, DLR X2, HS1, so connectivity across the river has been improved for non road users, it's road crossings which have lagged behind.
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
The answer seems simple. Remove the current bridge. Build a new bridge in its place. Refurb the current bridge. Install it just up- or downstream, and have that as the ABdPJ memorial garden bridge.
Make poetry history.
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Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
Actually three. There are two quite separate new footbridges at Hungerford, with the railay bridge in between. They start from different places and serve surprisingly different travel markets. The downstream one is notably busier (which is why it gets all the buskers and beggars).Scratchwood wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 There have been 2 central London foot bridges built around 2000 (Millennium and Hungerford)
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
There are not too many candidates for locations where another bridge to slot in. Who really wants a narrow bridge that cannot handle modern traffic volumes or loads ? I suppose it could become a new feature of the WWT Wetland London Centre or maybe it could be sold to Arizona to to their collection of old London Bridge. Alternatively Legoland Windsor could build a plastic block version.
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
I would have thought there might be a possibility of using it as a pedestrian and bike link to one of the parkland areas on the banks of the Thames. Linking the Wetland Centre to Fulham seems as good idea as any, although there may be some rowing types up in arms as you would be changing the boat race course!KeithW wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 13:23There are not too many candidates for locations where another bridge to slot in. Who really wants a narrow bridge that cannot handle modern traffic volumes or loads ? I suppose it could become a new feature of the WWT Wetland London Centre or maybe it could be sold to Arizona to to their collection of old London Bridge. Alternatively Legoland Windsor could build a plastic block version.
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
While I am heritage minded I think we have become obsessed with it to the point of parody. I look at the magnificent new bridges being built elsewhere such as the Helix Bridge in Singapore and the Dragon Bridge in Vietnam and then find that the best idea London can come up with is to spend a fortune rebuilding a 130 year old bridge that is unable to handle modern traffic.
https://www.arup.com/projects/helix-bridge
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/ ... athing.jpg
https://www.arup.com/projects/helix-bridge
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/ ... athing.jpg
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Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
Reckon you are probably right here.KeithW wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 14:24 While I am heritage minded I think we have become obsessed with it to the point of parody. I look at the magnificent new bridges being built elsewhere such as the Helix Bridge in Singapore and the Dragon Bridge in Vietnam and then find that the best idea London can come up with is to spend a fortune rebuilding a 130 year old bridge that is unable to handle modern traffic.
https://www.arup.com/projects/helix-bridge
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/ ... athing.jpg
I think it’s a beautiful bridge but that’s irrelevant to the city’s transport needs. It just doesn’t work.
Maybe build another, better bridge next to it while restricting it to pedestrians (that will still require work on it), or build a new bridge with a similar aesthetic but built to modern standards.
But if neither of those are feasible then scrap it and build a new one. Can’t be too sentimental.
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
I agree with this suggestion, although given average life expectancy we might be waiting a while (unless you know something the rest of us don't!)
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
Jubilee line crosses four times, also Crossrail will add another crossing. And there is the cable car, if that's relevant as a means of transport.Scratchwood wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 There have been 2 central London foot bridges built around 2000 (Millennium and Hungerford) and a LOT of rail tunnels under the Thames built during the last 25 years too - Jubilee Line X3, DLR X2, HS1, so connectivity across the river has been improved for non road users, it's road crossings which have lagged behind.
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
The point I was making with this is that not many people will hop on the Jubilee line purely to cross the river. The design of the JLE was to get it to the Docklands as direct as possible with interchanges with as much as possible along the way. It isn't intended to relieve any of the city centre bridges in this respect.Herned wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 16:49Jubilee line crosses four times, also Crossrail will add another crossing. And there is the cable car, if that's relevant as a means of transport.Scratchwood wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 There have been 2 central London foot bridges built around 2000 (Millennium and Hungerford) and a LOT of rail tunnels under the Thames built during the last 25 years too - Jubilee Line X3, DLR X2, HS1, so connectivity across the river has been improved for non road users, it's road crossings which have lagged behind.
The Dangleway, on the other hand, was, yet is something you'd expect in a theme park as a novelty ride, not a supposed world city's transport network. For context, you can't ride your bike through the foot tunnels in that part of London, so if you want to pedal across the Thames anywhere between the Rotherhite Tunnel and, err, the north sea, you can't. And people then ask why Dartford and Blackwall are choked with cars.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
You can't ride your bike, but you can take a bike on the DLR, and you can use the foot tunnels at Greenwich and Woolwich. Although all of those are in pretty much the same two places so there is effectively as much choice as drivers have east of Rotherhithe.
And there is the option to use the Dartford Crossing and the Tilbury ferry, admittedly niche options
And there is the option to use the Dartford Crossing and the Tilbury ferry, admittedly niche options
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
It's not. But it rumbles on, even now. I think LBC radio went there a year or two ago and from 7am to 9am found it carried about half a dozen passengers. Then they raced between the street outside the cablecar and the O2 front door, and found it quicker on the DLR/Underground than on the cablecar.
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
You can't ride on any of those, though, which defeats the point in riding a bike in the first place, if you have to push it and carry it. You'd think the London Boroughs/TfL/whoever would work out the biggest barrier to cycling in London after hostile roads is the lack of river crossings for bikes.Herned wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 17:45 You can't ride your bike, but you can take a bike on the DLR, and you can use the foot tunnels at Greenwich and Woolwich. Although all of those are in pretty much the same two places so there is effectively as much choice as drivers have east of Rotherhithe.
And there is the option to use the Dartford Crossing and the Tilbury ferry, admittedly niche options
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
They do know that, they did get as far as working out a bridge would cost £500m as it needs to be clear of river traffic.
How do other cities with 400m+ wide rivers cater for cyclists?
How do other cities with 400m+ wide rivers cater for cyclists?
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
Well it does. One of its biggest flows from Canary Wharf is to Waterloo, which would require crossing the river by some other means. And at our Canary Wharf school quite a number of the kids come from across the river, Canada Water in particular, just one stop on the Jubilee Underground, and also from Greenwich on the DLR. Same for Canary Wharf commuters on those one-stop hops, estate agents on the south side always highlight the journey time (obscure back-street 1980s development around Canada Water as "2 minutes by Underground to Canary Wharf" ).
Not so, one of the (few) places you will see significant numbers of bikes in London is at the Greenwich foot tunnel. They fill up the lifts, and dependent on character will walk the bike through, scoot downhill standing on the pedals, or just cycle through anyway. About equal proportions of these. It's actually part of one of the official bikeways. If the lift is u/s, not unknown, it's an interesting uphill encumbered climb up the long stairs.For context, you can't ride your bike through the foot tunnels in that part of London, so if you want to pedal across the Thames anywhere between the Rotherhite Tunnel and, err, the north sea, you can't.
The Rotherhithe Tunnel for bikes is a notable hazard, and I think I've only ever seen one in there. I've seen more pedestrians in there than that. I must give it a go one day. Maybe we can do a Sabre day out on Boris bikes there ...
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
Manhattan manages to have segregated bike routes across their bridges despite being bisected by two 400m+ wide rivers.
Even poxy little towns like Saumur in France can bridge a 400m+ wide river with at least token provision for cyclists in mind - Tower Bridge can't manage even that (or carry heavy vehicles), despite being the city's ring road.
London is its own worst enemy, this obsession with "protecting heritage" means that essential infrastructure projects just don't happen whilst the square mile gets surrounded by some of the most hideous designed buildings known to man (the cheese grater and walkie talkie, seriously, what do these add except being ugly as sin?). Let's not forget everyone opposed the aforesaid Tower Bridge being built because it would be "ugly" and "block boats". It's nothing new.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic
Waterloo, Blackfriars, Southwark and London Bridges do all have proper cycling provision, so looking at Tower Bridge in isolation is pretty selective. Apart from the Gallions Reach bridge, I can't think of any other proposed bridge which hasn't happened (the Boris bridge farce doesnt count). Certainly none which have been cancelled for heritage reasons
How many places can you cycle across the Hudson?
How many places can you cycle across the Hudson?