Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9696
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by WHBM »

Bryn666 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:36 The last major crossing of the Thames around or inside the GLA boundary to open was the QE2 Bridge. In 1991.
I would say Walton Bridge, in 2013, would be the contender. It's about the same length as Hammersmith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walton_Br ... xth_bridge
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Bryn666 »

WHBM wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:41
Bryn666 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:36 The last major crossing of the Thames around or inside the GLA boundary to open was the QE2 Bridge. In 1991.
I would say Walton Bridge, in 2013, would be the contender. It's about the same length as Hammersmith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walton_Br ... xth_bridge
It took from 1940 to 2013 to get a proper resolution with temporary structures limping on through year after year of indecision and inaction.

Doesn't really help further the argument that London DOES take river crossings seriously to my mind!
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 8715
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Letchworth Gdn City, Herts

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by trickstat »

Bryn666 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:44
WHBM wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:41
Bryn666 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:36 The last major crossing of the Thames around or inside the GLA boundary to open was the QE2 Bridge. In 1991.
I would say Walton Bridge, in 2013, would be the contender. It's about the same length as Hammersmith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walton_Br ... xth_bridge
It took from 1940 to 2013 to get a proper resolution with temporary structures limping on through year after year of indecision and inaction.

Doesn't really help further the argument that London DOES take river crossings seriously to my mind!
And both Walton and the QE2 Bridges are outside Greater London.
Scratchwood
Member
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 21:44
Location: London

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Scratchwood »

There have been 2 central London foot bridges built around 2000 (Millennium and Hungerford) and a LOT of rail tunnels under the Thames built during the last 25 years too - Jubilee Line X3, DLR X2, HS1, so connectivity across the river has been improved for non road users, it's road crossings which have lagged behind.
User avatar
Big L
Deputy Site Manager
Posts: 7500
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 20:36
Location: B5012

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Big L »

The answer seems simple. Remove the current bridge. Build a new bridge in its place. Refurb the current bridge. Install it just up- or downstream, and have that as the ABdPJ memorial garden bridge.
Make poetry history.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Help with maps using the new online calibrator.
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki.
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9696
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by WHBM »

Scratchwood wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 There have been 2 central London foot bridges built around 2000 (Millennium and Hungerford)
Actually three. There are two quite separate new footbridges at Hungerford, with the railay bridge in between. They start from different places and serve surprisingly different travel markets. The downstream one is notably busier (which is why it gets all the buskers and beggars).
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by KeithW »

Big L wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 The answer seems simple. Remove the current bridge. Build a new bridge in its place. Refurb the current bridge. Install it just up- or downstream, and have that as the ABdPJ memorial garden bridge.
There are not too many candidates for locations where another bridge to slot in. Who really wants a narrow bridge that cannot handle modern traffic volumes or loads ? I suppose it could become a new feature of the WWT Wetland London Centre or maybe it could be sold to Arizona to to their collection of old London Bridge. Alternatively Legoland Windsor could build a plastic block version.
User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 8715
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Letchworth Gdn City, Herts

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by trickstat »

KeithW wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 13:23
Big L wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 The answer seems simple. Remove the current bridge. Build a new bridge in its place. Refurb the current bridge. Install it just up- or downstream, and have that as the ABdPJ memorial garden bridge.
There are not too many candidates for locations where another bridge to slot in. Who really wants a narrow bridge that cannot handle modern traffic volumes or loads ? I suppose it could become a new feature of the WWT Wetland London Centre or maybe it could be sold to Arizona to to their collection of old London Bridge. Alternatively Legoland Windsor could build a plastic block version.
I would have thought there might be a possibility of using it as a pedestrian and bike link to one of the parkland areas on the banks of the Thames. Linking the Wetland Centre to Fulham seems as good idea as any, although there may be some rowing types up in arms as you would be changing the boat race course!
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by KeithW »

While I am heritage minded I think we have become obsessed with it to the point of parody. I look at the magnificent new bridges being built elsewhere such as the Helix Bridge in Singapore and the Dragon Bridge in Vietnam and then find that the best idea London can come up with is to spend a fortune rebuilding a 130 year old bridge that is unable to handle modern traffic.

https://www.arup.com/projects/helix-bridge
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/ ... athing.jpg
Uncle Buck
Member
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 23:33

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Uncle Buck »

KeithW wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 14:24 While I am heritage minded I think we have become obsessed with it to the point of parody. I look at the magnificent new bridges being built elsewhere such as the Helix Bridge in Singapore and the Dragon Bridge in Vietnam and then find that the best idea London can come up with is to spend a fortune rebuilding a 130 year old bridge that is unable to handle modern traffic.

https://www.arup.com/projects/helix-bridge
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/ ... athing.jpg
Reckon you are probably right here.

I think it’s a beautiful bridge but that’s irrelevant to the city’s transport needs. It just doesn’t work.

Maybe build another, better bridge next to it while restricting it to pedestrians (that will still require work on it), or build a new bridge with a similar aesthetic but built to modern standards.

But if neither of those are feasible then scrap it and build a new one. Can’t be too sentimental.
Herned
Member
Posts: 1357
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 09:15

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Herned »

Big L wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 The answer seems simple. Remove the current bridge. Build a new bridge in its place. Refurb the current bridge. Install it just up- or downstream, and have that as the ABdPJ memorial garden bridge.
I agree with this suggestion, although given average life expectancy we might be waiting a while (unless you know something the rest of us don't!)
Herned
Member
Posts: 1357
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 09:15

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Herned »

Scratchwood wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 There have been 2 central London foot bridges built around 2000 (Millennium and Hungerford) and a LOT of rail tunnels under the Thames built during the last 25 years too - Jubilee Line X3, DLR X2, HS1, so connectivity across the river has been improved for non road users, it's road crossings which have lagged behind.
Jubilee line crosses four times, also Crossrail will add another crossing. And there is the cable car, if that's relevant as a means of transport.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Bryn666 »

Herned wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 16:49
Scratchwood wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 There have been 2 central London foot bridges built around 2000 (Millennium and Hungerford) and a LOT of rail tunnels under the Thames built during the last 25 years too - Jubilee Line X3, DLR X2, HS1, so connectivity across the river has been improved for non road users, it's road crossings which have lagged behind.
Jubilee line crosses four times, also Crossrail will add another crossing. And there is the cable car, if that's relevant as a means of transport.
The point I was making with this is that not many people will hop on the Jubilee line purely to cross the river. The design of the JLE was to get it to the Docklands as direct as possible with interchanges with as much as possible along the way. It isn't intended to relieve any of the city centre bridges in this respect.

The Dangleway, on the other hand, was, yet is something you'd expect in a theme park as a novelty ride, not a supposed world city's transport network. For context, you can't ride your bike through the foot tunnels in that part of London, so if you want to pedal across the Thames anywhere between the Rotherhite Tunnel and, err, the north sea, you can't. And people then ask why Dartford and Blackwall are choked with cars.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Herned
Member
Posts: 1357
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 09:15

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Herned »

You can't ride your bike, but you can take a bike on the DLR, and you can use the foot tunnels at Greenwich and Woolwich. Although all of those are in pretty much the same two places so there is effectively as much choice as drivers have east of Rotherhithe.

And there is the option to use the Dartford Crossing and the Tilbury ferry, admittedly niche options
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9696
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by WHBM »

Herned wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 16:49 And there is the cable car, if that's relevant as a means of transport.
It's not. But it rumbles on, even now. I think LBC radio went there a year or two ago and from 7am to 9am found it carried about half a dozen passengers. Then they raced between the street outside the cablecar and the O2 front door, and found it quicker on the DLR/Underground than on the cablecar.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Bryn666 »

Herned wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 17:45 You can't ride your bike, but you can take a bike on the DLR, and you can use the foot tunnels at Greenwich and Woolwich. Although all of those are in pretty much the same two places so there is effectively as much choice as drivers have east of Rotherhithe.

And there is the option to use the Dartford Crossing and the Tilbury ferry, admittedly niche options
You can't ride on any of those, though, which defeats the point in riding a bike in the first place, if you have to push it and carry it. You'd think the London Boroughs/TfL/whoever would work out the biggest barrier to cycling in London after hostile roads is the lack of river crossings for bikes.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Herned
Member
Posts: 1357
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 09:15

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Herned »

They do know that, they did get as far as working out a bridge would cost £500m as it needs to be clear of river traffic.

How do other cities with 400m+ wide rivers cater for cyclists?
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9696
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by WHBM »

Bryn666 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 16:57
The point I was making with this is that not many people will hop on the Jubilee line purely to cross the river.
Well it does. One of its biggest flows from Canary Wharf is to Waterloo, which would require crossing the river by some other means. And at our Canary Wharf school quite a number of the kids come from across the river, Canada Water in particular, just one stop on the Jubilee Underground, and also from Greenwich on the DLR. Same for Canary Wharf commuters on those one-stop hops, estate agents on the south side always highlight the journey time (obscure back-street 1980s development around Canada Water as "2 minutes by Underground to Canary Wharf" :( ).
For context, you can't ride your bike through the foot tunnels in that part of London, so if you want to pedal across the Thames anywhere between the Rotherhite Tunnel and, err, the north sea, you can't.
Not so, one of the (few) places you will see significant numbers of bikes in London is at the Greenwich foot tunnel. They fill up the lifts, and dependent on character will walk the bike through, scoot downhill standing on the pedals, or just cycle through anyway. About equal proportions of these. It's actually part of one of the official bikeways. If the lift is u/s, not unknown, it's an interesting uphill encumbered climb up the long stairs.

The Rotherhithe Tunnel for bikes is a notable hazard, and I think I've only ever seen one in there. I've seen more pedestrians in there than that. I must give it a go one day. Maybe we can do a Sabre day out on Boris bikes there ...
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Bryn666 »

Herned wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 18:09 They do know that, they did get as far as working out a bridge would cost £500m as it needs to be clear of river traffic.

How do other cities with 400m+ wide rivers cater for cyclists?
Manhattan manages to have segregated bike routes across their bridges despite being bisected by two 400m+ wide rivers.

Even poxy little towns like Saumur in France can bridge a 400m+ wide river with at least token provision for cyclists in mind - Tower Bridge can't manage even that (or carry heavy vehicles), despite being the city's ring road.

London is its own worst enemy, this obsession with "protecting heritage" means that essential infrastructure projects just don't happen whilst the square mile gets surrounded by some of the most hideous designed buildings known to man (the cheese grater and walkie talkie, seriously, what do these add except being ugly as sin?). Let's not forget everyone opposed the aforesaid Tower Bridge being built because it would be "ugly" and "block boats". It's nothing new.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Herned
Member
Posts: 1357
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 09:15

Re: Hammersmith Bridge closed indefinitely to traffic

Post by Herned »

Waterloo, Blackfriars, Southwark and London Bridges do all have proper cycling provision, so looking at Tower Bridge in isolation is pretty selective. Apart from the Gallions Reach bridge, I can't think of any other proposed bridge which hasn't happened (the Boris bridge farce doesnt count). Certainly none which have been cancelled for heritage reasons

How many places can you cycle across the Hudson?
Post Reply