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doebag wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:15What do members here think the problems on surrounding roads might be if the bridge was shut pemanently except for pedestrians and cyclists. Looking on googlemaps, traffic does seem fairly good as I type.
Horrendous! Putney Bridge gets badly congested; Chiswick Bridge itself flows well but approaches (Chalker's Corner at the A205 and Hogarth Roundabout at the A4) are not so good. Permanently closing Hammersmith Bridge would push a lot of extra journeys thorugh Putney town centre, around the South Circular and through Mortlake, none of which are places you want any more than the heavy traffic they already carry.
I'm with Bryn's mad idea. Unscrew all the bolts, move it somewhere else, and put a new bridge in.
It's interesting that TfL weren't made to take ownership of all the Thames bridges as part of their remit as presumably the different authorities have joint responsibility for the aging structures where the border line runs up the middle.... Or in practice do they trade them off, with one looking after one, and the other looking after the next?
The A4 inbound is also always impacted when the bridge is closed. Some traffic diverts by turning right at Hogarth Roundabout, this has very limited stacking capacity for right turners at the roundabout signals, just a handful of cars at a time, and blocks back along the A4. Then just beyond the Hammersmith gyratory becomes congested, if not gridlocked right round, causing queueing all back along the inbound A4, the two typically add 10-15 minues or more to inbound A4 times towards Central London, even out of peak.
Outbound not so much affected.
We've just started school hols so things are currently lighter.
KeithW wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:54
The only satisfactory long term policy is to replace or completely rebuild it but as it is listed this will be difficult even if money is made available and it will need a prolonged closure
Its also grade ii* listed (see our wiki) which probably limits the options somewhat...
...And I think it would be very difficult even to try and find somewhere for a replacement bridge as well with a lack of suitable land near Hammersmith Bridge. In terms of road crossings it is quite a considerable distance along the Thames between Chiswick Bridge and Putney Bridge, so the Barnes area might even start to feel like an island from some perspectives.
c2R wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 23:04
It's interesting that TfL weren't made to take ownership of all the Thames bridges as part of their remit as presumably the different authorities have joint responsibility for the aging structures where the border line runs up the middle.... Or in practice do they trade them off, with one looking after one, and the other looking after the next?
Tower Bridge, London Bridge, Blackfriars Bridge, Southwark Bridge and Millennium Bridge are all looked after by the Bridge House Estates, which has about £500M in assets.
KeithW wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:54
The only satisfactory long term policy is to replace or completely rebuild it but as it is listed this will be difficult even if money is made available and it will need a prolonged closure
Its also grade ii* listed (see our wiki) which probably limits the options somewhat...
...And I think it would be very difficult even to try and find somewhere for a replacement bridge as well with a lack of suitable land near Hammersmith Bridge. In terms of road crossings it is quite a considerable distance along the Thames between Chiswick Bridge and Putney Bridge, so the Barnes area might even start to feel like an island from some perspectives.
I suspect replacement would mean removal and building something else in exactly the same place, rather than closing and keeping what is there and building something else nearby...
Euan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 23:31
...And I think it would be very difficult even to try and find somewhere for a replacement bridge as well with a lack of suitable land near Hammersmith Bridge. In terms of road crossings it is quite a considerable distance along the Thames between Chiswick Bridge and Putney Bridge, so the Barnes area might even start to feel like an island from some perspectives.
If the option chose were full replacement I would expect that demolition of the old bridge would happen as the new bridge is being designed and fabricated. In reality I suspect the piers and chains could be retained and a new bridge deck fabricated and installed. Build the deck as a sectional box girder and you could tow the sections into place and winch them into position. Its the sort of thing that is done offshore all the time, I have single lifts of structures in excess of 8000 tons although I have to admit it would be hard to get the Thialf up the river
The original bridge took 3 years to build but with modern materials and tech we could do MUCH better as has been demonstrated with the new A14. In the USA they replaced the collapsed I-35W bridge with a new 360 m long bridge using 61 m precast concrete sections capable of carrying 8 lanes of traffic in under a year at a cost of $250 million
In contrast a new 220 m long S2 deck with cycle and foot ways at Hammersmith would be childs play if the politicians would get out of the way. As it is they will likely still be scoring points a year from now with no remedial work started.
trickstat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:15
I assume closing the bridge tends to put extra traffic over Putney Bridge to the east and Chiswick to the west. It may also have an effect on Kew Bridge west of that. I know Fulham Palace Road between central Hammersmith and Putney Bridge is very prone to congestion even with Hammersmith Bridge open.
As a Chelsea ST holder, who drives in the area regularly, I can confirm Fulham Palace Road is a nightmare as the Kinks said "All day and all of the night" even when Chelsea and Fulham aren't playing. This is going to bring heavy congestion to the area.
The current Hammersmith Bridge was designed by Sir Joseph Bazalgette, the same engineer who gave London its sewer system. It took four years to build, from 1883-87, and was built to replace the old bridge which had become unsafe. The bridge was renovated for modern use following a bomb attack in 2000.
In April 2019 it was closed to all motorised traffic following safety checks that revealed a critical fault with the structure. Prior to this the bridge had been subject to a 7.5T mgw
If a listed structure is imminently dangerous and cannot be repaired, it can still be removed if there are no other options for stabilising it.
At least being a metal structure, the bridge would be a lot easier than a masonry structure to disassemble either partly or totally and replace failed components and re-assemble. However works like that are expensive and there's probably not much extra cash knocking around at the moment, so depending on the hazard or potential for in-situ repair or reinforcement, it might end up in bits in a restoration yard for a fair while.
Driving thrombosis caused this accident......a clot behind the wheel.
About time the DfT take control of this. Barnes, Putney and quite frankly most of SW London has been let down by the failure to replace the bridge - I would imagine for St Pauls its been a mightmare (lots of students travel to that school from all across London).
When it is rebuilt, I would like to see 1 cycle lane, bus lane and car lane rather than the old S2 catering from everything.
I routinely travel in to central London in the morning rush hour via Putney Bridge these days and the horrendous and endemic traffic congestion that I hear so much about never seems to be much in evidence when I'm passing through. As someone who has to cross the river in that area by car, at the busiest time of day, on a regular basis, I genuinely don't see any great urgency for it to re-open.
It's fairly rude that Grant Shapps' department has declined three TfL bids for funding to fix the bridge, only for Shapps himself to now arrive, cape billowing in the wind, to apparently save the day. He's brought a "taskforce", whatever that is, and lots of hot air about a lack of leadership and the travails of hardworking Londoners, but still no funding. Still, it got him in the Evening Standard.
Chris5156 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:46
I routinely travel in to central London in the morning rush hour via Putney Bridge these days and the horrendous and endemic traffic congestion that I hear so much about never seems to be much in evidence when I'm passing through. As someone who has to cross the river in that area by car, at the busiest time of day, on a regular basis, I genuinely don't see any great urgency for it to re-open.
It's fairly rude that Grant Shapps' department has declined three TfL bids for funding to fix the bridge, only for Shapps himself to now arrive, cape billowing in the wind, to apparently save the day. He's brought a "taskforce", whatever that is, and lots of hot air about a lack of leadership and the travails of hardworking Londoners, but still no funding. Still, it got him in the Evening Standard.
It's a major issue. Hammersmith is currently completely cut off from Barnes, you can't even walk over it. Having lived in Barnes for a brief period a few years back I used to always catch the bus over the bridge to get on the tube at Hammersmith. You currently have to go via Putney to do this adding a lot of time onto previously quick journeys.
Priority should be to reopen the bridge to at least buses, pedestrians, cyclists with consideration given to whether general traffic is to be permitted.
