A38 Derby Junctions

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fras
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by fras »

I'm thinking that a large program of cycling infrastucture with (sorry to say it) legally mandated use, could go a long way to get us on our bikes. There are huge mileages of abandoned railways as well, that could be brought into use for this purpose. Ideal for cycling with gentle gradients.
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Micro The Maniac »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 09:36 No one can afford a £1,200pcm apartment in the city centre.
...
First time buyer? Ha ha ha. Good luck.
I think this every time a planning proposal includes {insert number here} affordable houses - the reality is that NONE of them are really affordable to anyone, and that the affordable ones are much lower spec, but still with a huge subsidy attached.

I chuckle, given that affordable rent is no more than 80 per cent of the local market rent (including service charges, where applicable).

But then again, locally the Housing Benefit rate for a three-bedroomed semi is £1096.98 per month. For some strange reason, you cannot find a three-bedroomed semi for less than £1096.98 per month... and I find myself pondering the effect on rental rates if housing benefit was cut to, say, £500pcm
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Bryn666 »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:51
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 09:36 No one can afford a £1,200pcm apartment in the city centre.
...
First time buyer? Ha ha ha. Good luck.
I think this every time a planning proposal includes {insert number here} affordable houses - the reality is that NONE of them are really affordable to anyone, and that the affordable ones are much lower spec, but still with a huge subsidy attached.

I chuckle, given that affordable rent is no more than 80 per cent of the local market rent (including service charges, where applicable).

But then again, locally the Housing Benefit rate for a three-bedroomed semi is £1096.98 per month. For some strange reason, you cannot find a three-bedroomed semi for less than £1096.98 per month... and I find myself pondering the effect on rental rates if housing benefit was cut to, say, £500pcm
It's not a system I know a great deal about other than I'm tightfisted and don't see the money spent to services received ratio being what it should be. It's all interlinked though with making living the opposite of what it should be, there's no market choice, you get a cut and paste box house in a wiggly cul-de-sac estate that you need a car to get to anything nearby. It's rubbish isn't it?
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Big L »

I love when housing developers trumpet that x amount of houses are affordable; the logical extension is that the rest aren’t.

“Affordable housing” is just nice marketing speak for “cheap houses for poorer people”.
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Chris Bertram »

Big L wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:53 I love when housing developers trumpet that x amount of houses are affordable; the logical extension is that the rest aren’t.

“Affordable housing” is just nice marketing speak for “cheap houses for poorer people”.
Same for me with the unqualified "accessible toilets", are the rest inaccessible for everyone?
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

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Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:12
It's not a system I know a great deal about other than I'm tightfisted and don't see the money spent to services received ratio being what it should be. It's all interlinked though with making living the opposite of what it should be, there's no market choice, you get a cut and paste box house in a wiggly cul-de-sac estate that you need a car to get to anything nearby. It's rubbish isn't it?
It's ever so slightly even worse than that, with single development sites for,say 100 houses being subdivided into two adjacent roads, with different accesses, so that the more expensive houses are separated from the affordable housing, so that they can achieve an even higher price point - while keeping the lower class residents at arms length in their 'bit' of the estate.
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by KeithW »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 09:36 A lot of is down to incompetence in planning departments who just see council tax receipts rather than anything actually liveable. At the other end of the spectrum, you have Manchester which is throwing up skyscrapers for yuppies and not working out that the average punter in Manchester is not a yuppie. No one can afford a £1,200pcm apartment in the city centre. Meanwhile, the 'forgotten ring' as I call it gets worse and worse, with social problems not being resolved. Lots of new build on the outskirts of the conurbation, which you need a car to remotely stand a chance of being able to live in, nothing in the middle, and then the yuppie blocks in the city centre.

First time buyer? Ha ha ha. Good luck.
Adjusted for inflation I paid that for a flat above a shop in Canons Park North London in 1985. This one in fact.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.60586 ... authuser=0

Terrace houses in Cambridge were going for over £700,000 in 2016

The bottom line is the market, if there is a lot of work around and people are desperate to live there prices go through the roof. If in fact the planners don't agree new developments the prices just go higher as the demand is unchanged and the supply is lower. The result of that is typically the subdivision of existing housing. In parts of London dividing semis into two flats, one upstairs and one downstairs was all the rage. What many councils do including Cambridge is require that a percentage of new builds are available at lower cost for key workers such as nurses, teachers etc. The one thing the planning department does not do is fix the price of new developments.

This is why my commute to Cambridge was 22 miles each way and my house was in a different local authority. It was a 14 mile drive to the nearest large supermarket. But then I have to confess I prefer village life.
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ChrisH
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by ChrisH »

c2R wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 15:11
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:12
It's not a system I know a great deal about other than I'm tightfisted and don't see the money spent to services received ratio being what it should be. It's all interlinked though with making living the opposite of what it should be, there's no market choice, you get a cut and paste box house in a wiggly cul-de-sac estate that you need a car to get to anything nearby. It's rubbish isn't it?
It's ever so slightly even worse than that, with single development sites for,say 100 houses being subdivided into two adjacent roads, with different accesses, so that the more expensive houses are separated from the affordable housing, so that they can achieve an even higher price point - while keeping the lower class residents at arms length in their 'bit' of the estate.
I'm surprised that some authorities allow that. I live on a new-build estate and the social/affordable houses are completely mixed in with the privately owned ones. We are all equally reliant on cars to get everywhere :laugh:
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by KeithW »

Big L wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:53 I love when housing developers trumpet that x amount of houses are affordable; the logical extension is that the rest aren’t.

“Affordable housing” is just nice marketing speak for “cheap houses for poorer people”.
And it always has been , the average pleb in Ancient Rome lived in an Insula which is fancy name for a block of flats. They were not unlike the old Glasgow tenements, no running water, no cooking facilities or toilets and they had a tendency to fall down as they were not high quality
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Ruperts Trooper
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

ChrisH wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 15:46
c2R wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 15:11
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:12
It's not a system I know a great deal about other than I'm tightfisted and don't see the money spent to services received ratio being what it should be. It's all interlinked though with making living the opposite of what it should be, there's no market choice, you get a cut and paste box house in a wiggly cul-de-sac estate that you need a car to get to anything nearby. It's rubbish isn't it?
It's ever so slightly even worse than that, with single development sites for,say 100 houses being subdivided into two adjacent roads, with different accesses, so that the more expensive houses are separated from the affordable housing, so that they can achieve an even higher price point - while keeping the lower class residents at arms length in their 'bit' of the estate.
I'm surprised that some authorities allow that. I live on a new-build estate and the social/affordable houses are completely mixed in with the privately owned ones. We are all equally reliant on cars to get everywhere :laugh:
Authorities are very variable on that - on a recent development near me, the affordable housing (flats in 4-storey blocks) are together at one end - back in the '70s the developer of our large estate was supposed to intermingle the large 4-bed detached houses among the 2/3-bed semi's but when the council realised they hadn't, they were forced to put all the 4-bed detached houses together, not that we mind!
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Jim606
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Jim606 »

And it always has been , the average pleb in Ancient Rome lived in an Insula which is fancy name for a block of flats. They were not unlike the old Glasgow tenements, no running water, no cooking facilities or toilets and they had a tendency to fall down, as they were not high quality
Got me thinking of the Asterix book ' Mansion of the Gods'....on page 6 where Caeser berates the architect Squaronthehypotenus for building poor quality Insulae
Asterix 'Mansion of the Gods'
Asterix 'Mansion of the Gods'
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by c2R »

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... junctions/
Following an Order of the High Court issued on 8 July 2021, the decision of the Secretary of State dated 8 January 2021 to grant the application by Highways England for development consent for the proposed A38 Derby Junctions has been quashed. The Secretary of State will now re-determine that application. Further details on the re-determination process will be published here in due course.
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by ABB125 »

c2R wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 18:21 https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... junctions/
Following an Order of the High Court issued on 8 July 2021, the decision of the Secretary of State dated 8 January 2021 to grant the application by Highways England for development consent for the proposed A38 Derby Junctions has been quashed. The Secretary of State will now re-determine that application. Further details on the re-determination process will be published here in due course.
It'd be lovely to have a competent government, wouldn't it?
What's the reason for the quashing?
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Micro The Maniac »

ABB125 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 22:01 What's the reason for the quashing?
Predictably... a claim by campaigners that the project would exacerbate the climate emergency.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/d ... me-5415083

Solving congestion is clearly bad.
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c2R
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by c2R »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 22:15
ABB125 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 22:01 What's the reason for the quashing?
Predictably... a claim by campaigners that the project would exacerbate the climate emergency.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/d ... me-5415083

Solving congestion is clearly bad.
Solving congestion isn't bad, but coming up with planning policy to ensure that environmental factors are taken into account and then ignoring your own policy and approving the junctions anyway, without appropriate justification for doing so is the problem here....
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by jackal »

Though a high court order has been issued the judgment is not yet available. From what's in the public domain it seems the grounds for the order are likely to be a procedural failure by Shapps to fully consider environmental issues - so essentially similar to the Heathrow judgment that was overturned on appeal.
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by DB617 »

jackal wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:47 Though a high court order has been issued the judgment is not yet available. From what's in the public domain it seems the grounds for the order are likely to be a procedural failure by Shapps to fully consider environmental issues - so essentially similar to the Heathrow judgment that was overturned on appeal.
I wonder if all this failure has something to do with the purging of the Civil Service. It shouldn't be up to the Minister to make those mistakes - they should be covered by his office.
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Bryn666 »

DB617 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 15:29
jackal wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:47 Though a high court order has been issued the judgment is not yet available. From what's in the public domain it seems the grounds for the order are likely to be a procedural failure by Shapps to fully consider environmental issues - so essentially similar to the Heathrow judgment that was overturned on appeal.
I wonder if all this failure has something to do with the purging of the Civil Service. It shouldn't be up to the Minister to make those mistakes - they should be covered by his office.
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Phil
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Phil »

fras wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 09:45 I'm thinking that a large program of cycling infrastucture with (sorry to say it) legally mandated use, could go a long way to get us on our bikes. There are huge mileages of abandoned railways as well, that could be brought into use for this purpose. Ideal for cycling with gentle gradients.
Generally speaking ex railway land in urban areas has either been turned into roads or covered with development. Meanwhile many of the rural ones in flattish areas have been ploughed back into the fields from which they rose in the first place while others aren't much use because they don't go where the majority of folk want to go.

Now had the closure programme proceeded on a more leisurely place and the Government seen railways as an asset rather than a burden to be got rid of then you might well have many routes / alignments surviving intact, as has happened in France.

Sadly, as occurred here* just a few months ago the Government (through their proxy, Highways England) would rather spend 124K filling in a redundant bridge rather than 5K repairing it suggesting the 'railways are a burden' mentality is alive and well in the UK.

* https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/ ... -vandalism

Also https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 7-03-2021/
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by jackal »

It is now expected that, subject to the Secretary of State remaking the DCO, construction will start in late 2022.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 2-07-2021/
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