Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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Bryn666
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Bryn666 »

WHBM wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 16:01 OK, we could go on like this for some time. I find it a valid solution to a difficult junction. In the US a 4-way stop would be the solution.
A traffic engineer can find it whatever they want, but if someone is seriously injured on this junction then that engineer will find themselves in court as their unlawful layout will be considered a contributory factor. It's quite simple and there's nothing to debate...
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Berk
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Berk »

So the engineer would only be worried about the formal layout of the junction/lining/signage etc, and not the safety/quality of the paved surface??

If the lining is so worn away (as here), if it’s raining (like today) I’m coming from the right and can’t see the give way markings, and suddenly have to brake sharply.

If I then hit a massive pothole that clearly should’ve been repaired (but was repeatedly delayed, despite being reported 15 times), causing a minor (or major) shunt.

So in that situation, who would the court find at fault?? Me for not observing (despite it not being reasonable to expect a careful driver to see worn markings)??

Or the authority for having a deficient layout and a deficient surface?? 🤨
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by c2R »

If it's been reported, and nothing's happened within a reasonable time period, then they're negligent. However, they would have the defence if you were the one that reported it then you should have known it was defective.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by AndyB »

I am tempted to suggest that reversing priorities might be a solution if the site isn’t suitable for a mini-roundabout.
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Berk
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Berk »

AndyB wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 22:03 I am tempted to suggest that reversing priorities might be a solution if the site isn’t suitable for a mini-roundabout.
I’m not sure if that’s been done before.

I’m also pretty sure I’ve seen this sort of set-up abroad - in Ireland, and Spain - without any apparent problems.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Truvelo »

How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by jervi »

Talking of bad giveway markings... https://www.google.com/maps/@50.996782, ... 312!8i6656
Yes there was a small "island", but removed and road markings not updated.
First time I did this junction, I was glad not other cars were around https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0603934 ... 312!8i6656
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FleetlinePhil
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by FleetlinePhil »

I've posted the horror near my parents' house in Urmston on a previous thread, but it's good for a second look.

Of course the bus stop in the OP should have been marked properly, but with one bus a week (as far as I can find), I'm not sure it will cause any major problems.
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jervi
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by jervi »

WHBM wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 16:01 OK, we could go on like this for some time. I find it a valid solution to a difficult junction. In the US a 4-way stop would be the solution.
Yeah, four way stops are explicitly forbidden in the UK.
Schedule 9 General Direction 3 prohibits the use of STOP signs on all approaches to a
junction, as this would cause uncertainty as to which vehicles had priority.
Also just found this treasure, https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.82289 ... 312!8i6656
Three way - Give Way, and the road you Give way to, Gives Way Immediately.
Westie
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Westie »

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6529158 ... 312!8i6656

Never quite understood the reason for this one, except say, allowing for a greater turning circle?
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lefthandedspanner
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by lefthandedspanner »

This one in Halifax is not strictly a three-way Give Way (being a single Give Way followed immediately by a two-way one), but it is a strange layout. It's also directly outside the local test centre, and failing to navigate through it correctly is an excellent way to fail your test within the first five minutes.
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Bryn666
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Bryn666 »

Is that beauty still there? Ugh.

I got rid of the weird one on the Godley cutting bridge about 8 years ago as the priorities were all wrong and drivers were ignoring the lines anyway. That works much better now.
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Stevie D
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Stevie D »

And then of course there's the two-way stop at a three-way junction on Lynton Hill: https://goo.gl/maps/YfMV8mcqBL3DPiX19. Another hill where you wouldn't want to have to stop on the uphill.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Berk »

Stevie D wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 21:28 And then of course there's the two-way stop at a three-way junction on Lynton Hill: https://goo.gl/maps/YfMV8mcqBL3DPiX19. Another hill where you wouldn't want to have to stop on the uphill.
That reminds me a bit of Jersey...

I have seen junctions on a hill before, but never what would be a stagger (on the flat), edging sideways before continuing downhill in this case.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by A320Driver »

Near me is a 4-way Give Way, are they not strictly allowed either? The junction in question actually works quite well...the GSV shows what used to be the through route (pub on the right church on the left).

https://goo.gl/maps/Ga36USFohJf5VBDX8
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Chris5156
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Chris5156 »

A320Driver wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 10:08Near me is a 4-way Give Way, are they not strictly allowed either? The junction in question actually works quite well...the GSV shows what used to be the through route (pub on the right church on the left).
Bookham! I know that one and have passed through it. It comes complete with a weird raised square of bricks in the middle of the junction.

It's absolutely not allowed, no, and I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be a mini-roundabout - that would achieve the same result but with clear and universally-understood priority rules.
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Berk
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Berk »

I know some people have trouble differentiating between a STOP and Give Way, but wouldn’t a STOP sign have been more appropriate here?? Given that you can only see ahead of you, until you edge past the corners.

Not unlike here...
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by stuartf »

There's this in central Edinburgh on Drummond Place, a 3-way junction with give way lines on two roads (but no stop or give way signs anywhere). It looks like they couldn't decide if priority should lie with traffic going straight ahead northwards, or turning.

https://goo.gl/maps/ASsMoi9r8Vb9q8w28
Al__S
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Al__S »

aj444
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by aj444 »

One stop - two give ways,
Cropston
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