A traffic engineer can find it whatever they want, but if someone is seriously injured on this junction then that engineer will find themselves in court as their unlawful layout will be considered a contributory factor. It's quite simple and there's nothing to debate...
Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
So the engineer would only be worried about the formal layout of the junction/lining/signage etc, and not the safety/quality of the paved surface??
If the lining is so worn away (as here), if it’s raining (like today) I’m coming from the right and can’t see the give way markings, and suddenly have to brake sharply.
If I then hit a massive pothole that clearly should’ve been repaired (but was repeatedly delayed, despite being reported 15 times), causing a minor (or major) shunt.
So in that situation, who would the court find at fault?? Me for not observing (despite it not being reasonable to expect a careful driver to see worn markings)??
Or the authority for having a deficient layout and a deficient surface??
If the lining is so worn away (as here), if it’s raining (like today) I’m coming from the right and can’t see the give way markings, and suddenly have to brake sharply.
If I then hit a massive pothole that clearly should’ve been repaired (but was repeatedly delayed, despite being reported 15 times), causing a minor (or major) shunt.
So in that situation, who would the court find at fault?? Me for not observing (despite it not being reasonable to expect a careful driver to see worn markings)??
Or the authority for having a deficient layout and a deficient surface??
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
If it's been reported, and nothing's happened within a reasonable time period, then they're negligent. However, they would have the defence if you were the one that reported it then you should have known it was defective.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
I am tempted to suggest that reversing priorities might be a solution if the site isn’t suitable for a mini-roundabout.
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
I’m not sure if that’s been done before.
I’m also pretty sure I’ve seen this sort of set-up abroad - in Ireland, and Spain - without any apparent problems.
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
Talking of bad giveway markings... https://www.google.com/maps/@50.996782, ... 312!8i6656
Yes there was a small "island", but removed and road markings not updated.
First time I did this junction, I was glad not other cars were around https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0603934 ... 312!8i6656
Yes there was a small "island", but removed and road markings not updated.
First time I did this junction, I was glad not other cars were around https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0603934 ... 312!8i6656
- FleetlinePhil
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
I've posted the horror near my parents' house in Urmston on a previous thread, but it's good for a second look.
Of course the bus stop in the OP should have been marked properly, but with one bus a week (as far as I can find), I'm not sure it will cause any major problems.
Of course the bus stop in the OP should have been marked properly, but with one bus a week (as far as I can find), I'm not sure it will cause any major problems.
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
Yeah, four way stops are explicitly forbidden in the UK.
Also just found this treasure, https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.82289 ... 312!8i6656Schedule 9 General Direction 3 prohibits the use of STOP signs on all approaches to a
junction, as this would cause uncertainty as to which vehicles had priority.
Three way - Give Way, and the road you Give way to, Gives Way Immediately.
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6529158 ... 312!8i6656
Never quite understood the reason for this one, except say, allowing for a greater turning circle?
Never quite understood the reason for this one, except say, allowing for a greater turning circle?
- lefthandedspanner
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
This one in Halifax is not strictly a three-way Give Way (being a single Give Way followed immediately by a two-way one), but it is a strange layout. It's also directly outside the local test centre, and failing to navigate through it correctly is an excellent way to fail your test within the first five minutes.
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
Is that beauty still there? Ugh.
I got rid of the weird one on the Godley cutting bridge about 8 years ago as the priorities were all wrong and drivers were ignoring the lines anyway. That works much better now.
I got rid of the weird one on the Godley cutting bridge about 8 years ago as the priorities were all wrong and drivers were ignoring the lines anyway. That works much better now.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
And then of course there's the two-way stop at a three-way junction on Lynton Hill: https://goo.gl/maps/YfMV8mcqBL3DPiX19. Another hill where you wouldn't want to have to stop on the uphill.
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
That reminds me a bit of Jersey...Stevie D wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 21:28 And then of course there's the two-way stop at a three-way junction on Lynton Hill: https://goo.gl/maps/YfMV8mcqBL3DPiX19. Another hill where you wouldn't want to have to stop on the uphill.
I have seen junctions on a hill before, but never what would be a stagger (on the flat), edging sideways before continuing downhill in this case.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
Near me is a 4-way Give Way, are they not strictly allowed either? The junction in question actually works quite well...the GSV shows what used to be the through route (pub on the right church on the left).
https://goo.gl/maps/Ga36USFohJf5VBDX8
https://goo.gl/maps/Ga36USFohJf5VBDX8
Formerly ‘guvvaA303’
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
Bookham! I know that one and have passed through it. It comes complete with a weird raised square of bricks in the middle of the junction.A320Driver wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 10:08Near me is a 4-way Give Way, are they not strictly allowed either? The junction in question actually works quite well...the GSV shows what used to be the through route (pub on the right church on the left).
It's absolutely not allowed, no, and I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be a mini-roundabout - that would achieve the same result but with clear and universally-understood priority rules.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
I know some people have trouble differentiating between a STOP and Give Way, but wouldn’t a STOP sign have been more appropriate here?? Given that you can only see ahead of you, until you edge past the corners.
Not unlike here...
Not unlike here...
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
There's this in central Edinburgh on Drummond Place, a 3-way junction with give way lines on two roads (but no stop or give way signs anywhere). It looks like they couldn't decide if priority should lie with traffic going straight ahead northwards, or turning.
https://goo.gl/maps/ASsMoi9r8Vb9q8w28
https://goo.gl/maps/ASsMoi9r8Vb9q8w28
Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill
So, some Cambridge ones:
Four way Give Way with "To the right" plates - possibly predates the mini roundabout?
erm , sorry, what?
just make Riverside the priority, it's the busier route here (primarily cycles)
Four way Give Way with "To the right" plates - possibly predates the mini roundabout?
erm , sorry, what?
just make Riverside the priority, it's the busier route here (primarily cycles)