Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Big L »

aj444 wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:59 One stop - two give ways,
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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Bryn666 wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 16:23 A traffic engineer can find it whatever they want, but if someone is seriously injured on this junction then that engineer will find themselves in court as their unlawful layout will be considered a contributory factor. It's quite simple and there's nothing to debate...
We have a 3-way mini roundabout nearby where quite regularly three vehicles arrive there all together all turning right. That's the same situation and everyone seems able to handle it fine. It's also difficult to imagine serious injuries arising just a few feet forward from a standing start.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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trickstat wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 12:53
the cheesecake man wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 12:46 Similar setup here. I've no idea why.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.36027 ... 312!8i6656
Maybe a lot of the traffic coming from the direction of the camera turns right and the give way on the downhill stops queues building up? That's the only plausible explananation I can come up with. However if only a small amount of traffic comes down that hill the right turn will generally not be a problem while if there is quite a lot of traffic there will be queueing at this give way line?
Most traffic through the junction (I'd guess 90%) is making the right-turn you suggest or its reverse so your suggestion is probably right. But why make the reverse movement give way? Perceived lack of space for the two main movements to pass perhaps?
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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How about this one I spotted in York last week?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.96503 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by the cheesecake man »

Apologies for the multiple postings but while I remember here's an unusual but sensible uphill priority at the top of a well steep hill my driving instructor used to love sending me up:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.35334 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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Have we had this 3-way give-way in Wolverhampton yet?
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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Here's something interesting in Ireland; although not the same it does suffer from some confusion of priority...

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.0055682 ... 384!8i8192

The street that you're on is one way in the direction the camera is facing. You can turn left or right, or go straight ahead. The left and right turns are one way away from this junction. Straight ahead is two way. The priority, however, isn't clear at all - locals ignore the marking on the road, and treat the movement from the camera to straight ahead as having priority, but would give way turning right. Traffic coming towards the camera and turning left has priority, but if it turns right it gives way.

I'd assume in the absence of give way signs that this is correct behaviour, but there must be a less ambiguous way of signing all this for drivers unfamiliar with the area.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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c2R wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 08:00 Here's something interesting in Ireland; although not the same it does suffer from some confusion of priority...

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.0055682 ... 384!8i8192

The street that you're on is one way in the direction the camera is facing. You can turn left or right, or go straight ahead. The left and right turns are one way away from this junction. Straight ahead is two way. The priority, however, isn't clear at all - locals ignore the marking on the road, and treat the movement from the camera to straight ahead as having priority, but would give way turning right. Traffic coming towards the camera and turning left has priority, but if it turns right it gives way.

I'd assume in the absence of give way signs that this is correct behaviour, but there must be a less ambiguous way of signing all this for drivers unfamiliar with the area.
The road markings are clear. If you are going straight on our turning left, you have to give way to traffic crossing your path. Traffic coming from straight ahead and turning right (into the road on your left) has no give way markings and isn't crossing a centre line (because the centre line doesn't run through the junction), and so has priority over you.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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Stevie D wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:06
c2R wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 08:00 Here's something interesting in Ireland; although not the same it does suffer from some confusion of priority...

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.0055682 ... 384!8i8192

The street that you're on is one way in the direction the camera is facing. You can turn left or right, or go straight ahead. The left and right turns are one way away from this junction. Straight ahead is two way. The priority, however, isn't clear at all - locals ignore the marking on the road, and treat the movement from the camera to straight ahead as having priority, but would give way turning right. Traffic coming towards the camera and turning left has priority, but if it turns right it gives way.

I'd assume in the absence of give way signs that this is correct behaviour, but there must be a less ambiguous way of signing all this for drivers unfamiliar with the area.
The road markings are clear. If you are going straight on our turning left, you have to give way to traffic crossing your path. Traffic coming from straight ahead and turning right (into the road on your left) has no give way markings and isn't crossing a centre line (because the centre line doesn't run through the junction), and so has priority over you.
Indeed, reading into it it is what the signage manual says (http://trafficsigns.ie/wp-content/uploa ... rkings.pdf section on one way markings - 7.2.19) but that's not how the junction is treated by everyone that uses it; and the situation isn't helped as the end of one way street isn't signed as such with an additional yield or stop sign (ch7 says it may be supplemented but not must)....
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Berk »

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a similar arrangement somewhere in Falmouth. I’ve been needing to research access arrangements because I’m staying right in town and there isn’t any adjacent parking (quite understandable if you’re familiar with the place).

If I drive close to the door to drop my bags off, it’s impossible to return the way I’ve come. And I’d end up driving ¾-mile to get to the car park nearest the pub I’m staying in. So I might as well park near the railway station, it’s only ½-mile walk from there.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by A9NWIL »

lefthandedspanner wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 20:28 This one in Halifax is not strictly a three-way Give Way (being a single Give Way followed immediately by a two-way one), but it is a strange layout. It's also directly outside the local test centre, and failing to navigate through it correctly is an excellent way to fail your test within the first five minutes.
They should redo that as a mini dual carriageway, that would remove a lot of confusion!
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Bryn666 »

lotrjw wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 19:28
lefthandedspanner wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 20:28 This one in Halifax is not strictly a three-way Give Way (being a single Give Way followed immediately by a two-way one), but it is a strange layout. It's also directly outside the local test centre, and failing to navigate through it correctly is an excellent way to fail your test within the first five minutes.
They should redo that as a mini dual carriageway, that would remove a lot of confusion!
Local residents will not want that as it means going the long way around to get home and that will never do.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by A9NWIL »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 20:21
lotrjw wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 19:28
lefthandedspanner wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 20:28 This one in Halifax is not strictly a three-way Give Way (being a single Give Way followed immediately by a two-way one), but it is a strange layout. It's also directly outside the local test centre, and failing to navigate through it correctly is an excellent way to fail your test within the first five minutes.
They should redo that as a mini dual carriageway, that would remove a lot of confusion!
Local residents will not want that as it means going the long way around to get home and that will never do.
All of about 100 metres? thats nothing! If they are that worried mark the ends with U turn lanes and make a gap half way that they can turn round early.

I would also take the lane markings away and put parking spaces all down the sides, that way people wont treat it like a major dual carriageway as there would be no overtaking lanes.
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by ForestChav »

There are plenty of 4-way give ways at crossroads on this estate... https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9809954 ... m2!7m1!2e1
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

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Truvelo wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 22:58 There's one near me

https://goo.gl/maps/tLS9wfMmuDaRzNqp6
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by A303Chris »

This junction in Caversham, near Reading is really weird now. The stop lines on the side road remain but give ways have been added to the through route. Unfortunately Google hasn't been through recently but here is the committee report authorising the works from Reading BC.

The amazing thing with the report is there is no plan with it, so members just improved the bizarre scheme on text alone.

A friend of mine who is a driving instructor did say who has priority, and when I said give way to the left, he went well you have to stop at a stop and a give way only if something is coming. Therefore in practice, nothing changes
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by WHBM »

lefthandedspanner wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 20:28 This one in Halifax is not strictly a three-way Give Way (being a single Give Way followed immediately by a two-way one), but it is a strange layout. It's also directly outside the local test centre, and failing to navigate through it correctly is an excellent way to fail your test within the first five minutes.
At least there's space for a car at the second line. This one close to us, where the most common turn is right and right again, does not have space for that
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5095161 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Viator »

ForestChav wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 20:52 There are plenty of 4-way give ways at crossroads on this estate... https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9809954 ... m2!7m1!2e1
Interesting. I notice that this zone of "4-way give ways" is bounded by signs (e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/eqD9JkGZPVMCYGgj9) which, as well as warning of give way(s) ahead, announce entry into a traffic-calmed area.

Upthread, however,
Bryn666 wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 14:33 a cursory glance at the regulations part will tell you that 3 and 4-way stops/give ways are not permitted. They are a priority device, not a traffic calming one.
So, would the HA have had to obtain a special traffic order in this case, which appears to make 4-way give ways an integral part of a traffic-calming scheme?
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Bryn666 »

Odds are they just put everything there up without authorisation and are hoping nothing ever goes wrong...
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Re: Three way Give Way at Heathers Gill

Post by Brownfools »

We have a four way cross roads junction not far from us that, until recently, had stop lines and signs on all four approaches. Google earth still shows it that way but, street view shows the new layout which is stop from the east and west.
Sorry, I have no idea how to post google earth and street views but, this is the location.
52°14'09.40" N 6°35'01.37" W
Maybe this will work.
[gmap]52°14'09.40" N 6°35'01.37" W[/gmap]
(nope!)
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