Motorway–less Counties Gaining Lengths of Motorway?

[Burwellian]

Think we're mooting something like... This?

[roadtester]

Yes - I can't see any big difficulties in terms of any upgrades because the relevant bits of A14 and A11 are to a modern standard and the Newmarket bypass was built off-line, albeit some time ago.

I can't see that the fact that the bypass is effectively an A11/A14 multiplex means it can't be blue-lined, necessitating a separate A11 - it just means part of the A11 would be blue-lined as well.

However, I do wonder whether, like Cambridge to Huntingdon on the A14 which acted as a multiplex for both north/south (M11 to A1(M)) and east/west (A14 through traffic and A14 to A428)) traffic, the Newmarket bypass might one day become overloaded and have to be de-multiplexed - although that day isn't here yet, because the Newmarket bypass was built to a higher standard as a modern D3 in the first place.

But I'd see that as a separate question to whether the existing bypass could be blue-lined while carrying both A11 and A14 corridor traffic.

[M4Simon]

I can't see that the fact that the bypass is effectively an A11/A14 multiplex means it can't be blue-lined, necessitating a separate A11 - it just means part of the A11 would be blue-lined as well.

I think that the A14/A11 multiplex makes the case for blue lining stronger. It acts as part of two major trunk routes and is an obvious starter candidate for a wider upgrade in East Anglia. Extending the A11(M) south west to Stumps Cross makes sense, as does extending the A14(M) west to Girton.

The A12 from the M25 to Chelmsford is also in need of an upgrade - its two/three lane mix is not fit for purpose and the alignment doesn't lend itself to a fully online upgrade. My experiences on the A12 east to Ipswich are limited to off peak so I am not sure how urgent the case for an upgrade to motorway is along t he rest of the corridor.

Simon

[lefthandedspanner]

The A12 from the M25 to Chelmsford is also in need of an upgrade - its two/three lane mix is not fit for purpose and the alignment doesn't lend itself to a fully online upgrade. My experiences on the A12 east to Ipswich are limited to off peak so I am not sure how urgent the case for an upgrade to motorway is along t he rest of the corridor.

Both A12 and A14 have far too many local junctions to make an online upgrade feasible. There's a good case for having a blue-line equivalent to A12 from M25 to Ipswich and all the way to Felixstowe, with a new Orwell crossing to separate local and long-distance traffic - possibly a tunnel. The most sensible course would be to route it around the other side of the settlements served by the existing A12, with limited junctions, and leaving the A12 as a local distributor.

Beyond Ipswich and up the coast there's simply no need for an expressway; the population and traffic levels don't justify it.

[roadtester]

I can't see that the fact that the bypass is effectively an A11/A14 multiplex means it can't be blue-lined, necessitating a separate A11 - it just means part of the A11 would be blue-lined as well.

I think that the A14/A11 multiplex makes the case for blue lining stronger. It acts as part of two major trunk routes and is an obvious starter candidate for a wider upgrade in East Anglia. Extending the A11(M) south west to Stumps Cross makes sense, as does extending the A14(M) west to Girton.

The A12 from the M25 to Chelmsford is also in need of an upgrade - its two/three lane mix is not fit for purpose and the alignment doesn't lend itself to a fully online upgrade. My experiences on the A12 east to Ipswich are limited to off peak so I am not sure how urgent the case for an upgrade to motorway is along t he rest of the corridor.

Simon

I think this is all very much in the future, but if blue lines ever reach Ipswich, I think this more likely to be along the A14 corridor than the A12.

[KeithW]

I can't see that the fact that the bypass is effectively an A11/A14 multiplex means it can't be blue-lined, necessitating a separate A11 - it just means part of the A11 would be blue-lined as well.

I think that the A14/A11 multiplex makes the case for blue lining stronger. It acts as part of two major trunk routes and is an obvious starter candidate for a wider upgrade in East Anglia. Extending the A11(M) south west to Stumps Cross makes sense, as does extending the A14(M) west to Girton.

The A12 from the M25 to Chelmsford is also in need of an upgrade - its two/three lane mix is not fit for purpose and the alignment doesn't lend itself to a fully online upgrade. My experiences on the A12 east to Ipswich are limited to off peak so I am not sure how urgent the case for an upgrade to motorway is along t he rest of the corridor.

Simon

As I recall Highways England have already ruled out extending the A14M) along the Cambridge Northern Bypass and as for the A11 I would sooner spend the money fixing the real problem which is Fiveways roundabout. The 'modern' D3 multiplexed section of the Newmarket Bypass is actually quite heavily loaded and has frequent accidents in part at least due to the weaving that occurs around the merge and diverge. At the merge you have both the A14 and A11 carrying an AADT of in excess of 40k merging and then demerging a few miles farther on exacerbated by the Rowley Mile and 1000 Guineas services which would definitely have to go or be rebuilt.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.24862 ... 6656?hl=en

Please note that upgrading the road itself is a different issue to declaring it a special road, the latter has little real benefit, stick blue signs up on the Newmarket Bypass and it will not magically be a better road, I would support real upgrades to the A14 but not pretend ones.

[Peter350]

I can't see that the fact that the bypass is effectively an A11/A14 multiplex means it can't be blue-lined, necessitating a separate A11 - it just means part of the A11 would be blue-lined as well.

I think that the A14/A11 multiplex makes the case for blue lining stronger. It acts as part of two major trunk routes and is an obvious starter candidate for a wider upgrade in East Anglia. Extending the A11(M) south west to Stumps Cross makes sense, as does extending the A14(M) west to Girton.

The A12 from the M25 to Chelmsford is also in need of an upgrade - its two/three lane mix is not fit for purpose and the alignment doesn't lend itself to a fully online upgrade. My experiences on the A12 east to Ipswich are limited to off peak so I am not sure how urgent the case for an upgrade to motorway is along t he rest of the corridor.

Simon

As I recall Highways England have already ruled out extending the A14M) along the Cambridge Northern Bypass and as for the A11 I would sooner spend the money fixing the real problem which is Fiveways roundabout. The 'modern' D3 multiplexed section of the Newmarket Bypass is actually quite heavily loaded and has frequent accidents in part at least due to the weaving that occurs around the merge and diverge. At the merge you have both the A14 and A11 carrying an AADT of in excess of 40k merging and then demerging a few miles farther on exacerbated by the Rowley Mile and 1000 Guineas services which would definitely have to go or be rebuilt.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.24862 ... 6656?hl=en

Please note that upgrading the road itself is a different issue to declaring it a special road, the latter has little real benefit, stick blue signs up on the Newmarket Bypass and it will not magically be a better road, I would support real upgrades to the A14 but not pretend ones.

I think it’s safe to say that the Newmarket Bypass should really be upgraded to four lanes in each direction at the same time as it becomes designated as a motorway.

The A11 would of course be harder to blue-line due to the online dual sections having been built not that long ago. On the topic of providing motorway access to Norfolk, I wonder if it would be just as beneficial to upgrade the A47 between Great Yarmouth and Peterborough, seeing as that would be better for connectivity to the North.

[roadtester]

I agree the Newmarket bypass can be quite heavily loaded at times, but I’ve rarely seen it properly jammed.

If we consider the A11 and A14 corridors as a whole, I wouldn’t put it at the top of the list of upgrades for either.

On the A11, I would put upgrading the at-grade roundabouts - especially, as Keith mentions, Fiveways - as a higher priority, and on the A14, I would choose the at-grade junctions to the west of the A1.

If I were nevertheless upgrading the Newmarket bypass, I would initially prioritise improving the junctions - especially that with the A142 - over widening.

It’s not that the Newmarket bypass wouldn’t benefit from widening, or that it might one day no longer be possible to put it off - It’s just that I don’t think it’s the highest priority for the time being.

[A320Driver]

Cornwall: the A30 will be continuous HQ D2 from county boundary to Camborne once the Carland-Chiverton upgrade is completed.

[Johnathan404]

The Isle of Wight has a motorway... at least that's what the locals call Medina Way with its radical idea of having a central reservation

[SouthWest Philip]

Cornwall: the A30 will be continuous HQ D2 from county boundary to Camborne once the Carland-Chiverton upgrade is completed.

The section from the A395 at Kennard's House to the new section near Temple is not really 'high quality' with some dubious alignment and central reservation gaps...

[crb11]

I’ve developed a feeling, and I stress this is a purely personal observation, based on what I’ve picked up from users and posts on here.

I think there is a genuine cultural divide between people who are regular motorway drivers, and those who are not. People who have access to motorways tend to use them frequently. This in turn influences their driving, and the route choices they may take.

I think you have a point, but I think such people would generally see the divide as being between high-speed dual carriageways of any sort, and other roads. In Cambridge for instance, apart from learners, my experience is that most people don't see a distinction between the M11 and A14 northern bypass, and you will often hear reference to "going around by the motorways" rather than "going through town" (i.e., going out to the A14, then round via Girton and into town again from an M11 junction).

[TimM3-A55]

Flintshire could gain a motorway if the A494 became a motorway either as A494(M) or an extention of the M56. The section immediately within Wales is already D3M. On the English side the road would either need smart tech or a HS, but little else, to be motorway.

Probably won't be considered until the next section to the A55 is upgraded/replaced. I believe the most recent plans are for a new route that won't include the Welsh D3M section though.

[Octaviadriver]

I’ve developed a feeling, and I stress this is a purely personal observation, based on what I’ve picked up from users and posts on here.

I think there is a genuine cultural divide between people who are regular motorway drivers, and those who are not. People who have access to motorways tend to use them frequently. This in turn influences their driving, and the route choices they may take.

I think you have a point, but I think such people would generally see the divide as being between high-speed dual carriageways of any sort, and other roads. In Cambridge for instance, apart from learners, my experience is that most people don't see a distinction between the M11 and A14 northern bypass, and you will often hear reference to "going around by the motorways" rather than "going through town" (i.e., going out to the A14, then round via Girton and into town again from an M11 junction).

SWMBO has never held a driving licence and she always calls any dual carriageway a motorway, such as the Brecon bypass. I've tried to explain the distinction between the different classifications of roads, but she doesn't understand or perhaps want to know. I suppose it doesn't matter if she doesn't drive as there'll never be a situation where she'll need to know.

[Vierwielen]

Hi!

To my knowledge, if R–to–P had been implemented in it's entirety, then Lincolnshire would have been one of the UK's motorway–less counties to lose that status(?) with the upgrading of the A1 to A1(M) – admittedly North Lincolnshire does have a short length of the M180 within it, it doesn't count as North Lincs came into being long after the M180 opened!

Are we ever likely to see any Motorway or A(M) Expresways with Motorway Regulations in force in any currently motorway–less counties, and which are the most likely?

Chris Wiliams

Politically there is a big difference between building a motorway-quality road and building a motorway.

[graeme_t]

I’ve developed a feeling, and I stress this is a purely personal observation, based on what I’ve picked up from users and posts on here.

I think there is a genuine cultural divide between people who are regular motorway drivers, and those who are not. People who have access to motorways tend to use them frequently. This in turn influences their driving, and the route choices they may take.

I think you have a point, but I think such people would generally see the divide as being between high-speed dual carriageways of any sort, and other roads. In Cambridge for instance, apart from learners, my experience is that most people don't see a distinction between the M11 and A14 northern bypass, and you will often hear reference to "going around by the motorways" rather than "going through town" (i.e., going out to the A14, then round via Girton and into town again from an M11 junction).

The A14 bridge by Bait's Bite lock is always referred to as the "Motorway Bridge" by the (college) boat clubs, even though it isn't.

[Micro The Maniac]

Flintshire could gain a motorway if the A494 became a motorway either as A494(M) or an extention of the M56. The section immediately within Wales is already D3M. On the English side the road would either need smart tech or a HS, but little else, to be motorway.

Quite frankly, I cannot understand why, not so long ago, when they extended the M56 (by a few hundred yards) to the A5117 they didn't go the extra miles through to the A55 at Ewloe - instead we got a 50 "environmental" limit.

Imminent work to upgrade the Dee Bridge should provide an opportunity to blue-line (as there are already suitable alternative roads for NMUs)... but the proposals quite clearly do not consider this option.

Likewise, the M53 should be extended along the A55, all the way around Chester, to Ewloe - again, it's pretty much up to spec[*], and suitable NMU provision is already available.

[*] Yes, I know there's no "official" spec, just user expectations

[Glenn A]

I would definitely consider upgrading the A14 from the M6 to Felixstowe. This road serves one of the country's biggest ports, links the M6/M1 with the A1 and M11, and by passes boom towns like Cambridge and Ipswich.

[Chris5156]

Northumberland is actually incorrectly on the list, due to the A167(M).

Not any more!

[Stevie D]

Lincolnshire would have been one of the UK's motorway–less counties

The M180 and M181 are in Lincolnshire.

Only if you're going by ceremonial counties. Administratively, the M180 and M181 are in North Lincolnshire, not Lincolnshire.