Should HQDCs and smart motorways have their own identity on British road atlases?

[Peter350]

As more and more miles of dual carriageway are being upgraded to expressway standard, it raises the question as to whether we should distinguish these high quality routes from ordinary DCs. This practice already happens on French road mapping with Michelin describing these roads as 'Dual Carriageways with motorway characteristics', but it is somewhat surprising we have never adopted it here, considering how much near-motorway standard roads we have here.

Of course, Highways England have proposed to upgrade these to official expressways which will give them the same regulations as motorways, but considering the amount of local access roads which would need to be built for prohibited traffic, it is unlikely that we'll be seeing any extra blue lines on maps in the near term. Instead, it might be a good idea to roll out a new colour to show that these roads aren't motorway, but still of a much better standard than ordinary DCs. AA atlases could show these as lime green lines with the same pt size as motorways.

I also think it might be beneficial if smart motorways are distinguished from conventional motorways on atlases. This is because they lack hard shoulders and are generally more congested, both factors that would determine whether a driver would choose or avoid that route. I suggest that AA atlases show these in the same shade of blue as normal motorways, but with a yellow stripe down the middle (in a similar fashion to my avatar).

[Alderpoint]

Whilst us old fogies might use Road Atlases occasionally, the vast majority of new drivers are not going to be concerned about such things: they are just going to follow their SatNav, as per the current driving test. So they are really not interested in what standard of road they are driving along, just what is going to get them there in the most efficient means.

[Peter350]

Whilst us old fogies might use Road Atlases occasionally, the vast majority of new drivers are not going to be concerned about such things: they are just going to follow their SatNav, as per the current driving test. So they are really not interested in what standard of road they are driving along, just what is going to get them there in the most efficient means.

The problem with SatNavs though is that they often send you down back lanes that are unsuitable for heavy traffic. I don’t think it would be wise if the entire population used them to the extent that would make conventional maps obsolete.

[c2R]

Whilst us old fogies might use Road Atlases occasionally, the vast majority of new drivers are not going to be concerned about such things: they are just going to follow their SatNav, as per the current driving test. So they are really not interested in what standard of road they are driving along, just what is going to get them there in the most efficient means.

The problem with SatNavs though is that they often send you down back lanes that are unsuitable for heavy traffic. I don’t think it would be wise if the entire population used them to the extent that would make conventional maps obsolete.

It's pretty much already happened.

[jervi]

It would be good if there was different colours for Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway), Motorways, High Quality Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways (primary routes), Single Carriageway A routes, Single Carriageway Primary routes, Single Carriageway B routes, other roads.
But there ain't enough colours

[Alderpoint]

The problem with SatNavs though is that they often send you down back lanes that are unsuitable for heavy traffic.

Not my experience. I've driven about 8000 miles in the last three months, all of them with the SatNav running (not that I follow it all the time). The only times I recall it routing me via back lanes were when my destination was on those lanes. Indeed, it regularly seems to route me a roundabout way to avoid smaller roads, e.g. Richmond to Lancaster via Scotch Corner and the A66/A685/M6 rather than through Hawes.

[A9NWIL]

It would be good if there was different colours for Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway), Motorways, High Quality Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways (primary routes), Single Carriageway A routes, Single Carriageway Primary routes, Single Carriageway B routes, other roads.
But there ain't enough colours

Other= white
Single Carriageway B routes = Yellow
Single Carriageway Primary routes = Oragne
Single Carriageway A routes = Red
Dual Carriageways = Light green
Dual Carriageways (primary routes) = Dark Green
High Quality Dual Carriageways = Light Blue
Motorways = Dark Blue
Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway) = Purple

SatNavs should also categorise those from 1 to 9, 1 being the highest capacity and 9 being the lowest, then route people over the highest capacity roads first based on how busy and how short the journey would be too.

[Ruperts Trooper]

It would be good if there was different colours for Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway), Motorways, High Quality Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways (primary routes), Single Carriageway A routes, Single Carriageway Primary routes, Single Carriageway B routes, other roads.
But there ain't enough colours

Other= white
Single Carriageway B routes = Yellow
Single Carriageway Primary routes = Oragne
Single Carriageway A routes = Red
Dual Carriageways = Light green
Dual Carriageways (primary routes) = Dark Green
High Quality Dual Carriageways = Light Blue
Motorways = Dark Blue
Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway) = Purple

SatNavs should also categorise those from 1 to 9, 1 being the highest capacity and 9 being the lowest, then route people over the highest capacity roads first based on how busy and how short the journey would be too.

It would be good if maps used different colours to distinguish freeflow dual carriageway from non-freeflow dual-carriageway as that helps heavily laden vehicles avoid energy- and time-consuming roundabouts and traffic lights which plague some journeys - other than that just distinguish between motorways, dual carriageways, S2s and S1s and avoid too much complexity.

[Achmelvic]

It would be good if there was different colours for Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway), Motorways, High Quality Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways (primary routes), Single Carriageway A routes, Single Carriageway Primary routes, Single Carriageway B routes, other roads.
But there ain't enough colours

Other= white
Single Carriageway B routes = Yellow
Single Carriageway Primary routes = Oragne
Single Carriageway A routes = Red
Dual Carriageways = Light green
Dual Carriageways (primary routes) = Dark Green
High Quality Dual Carriageways = Light Blue
Motorways = Dark Blue
Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway) = Purple

SatNavs should also categorise those from 1 to 9, 1 being the highest capacity and 9 being the lowest, then route people over the highest capacity roads first based on how busy and how short the journey would be too.

What about single lane A routes with passing places? Eg A838 south of Durness?

[KeithW]

It would be good if maps used different colours to distinguish freeflow dual carriageway from non-freeflow dual-carriageway as that helps heavily laden vehicles avoid energy- and time-consuming roundabouts and traffic lights which plague some journeys - other than that just distinguish between motorways, dual carriageways, S2s and S1s and avoid too much complexity.

This is actually a problem that does not have a single solution. Take this situation,

Route a)
Freeflow dual carriageway which is heavily congested
Route b)
Non-freeflow dual carriageway which is lightly loaded

I know which I would take and it is not a). In any case keeping print maps up to date would require a lot of extra survey and update work which I doubt many map makers have the resources to do.

What most modern connected satnavs do is look at journey times on different routes and send you down the fastest, Now going back to an earlier point about unsuitable roads what I think we need is a routing option to 'prefer main roads'. I think one reason why some satnavs send you down back lanes is that in the absence of real traffic information they just default to the shortest route even if its a country lane barely wide enough for a car. If I know there is an unclassified road that is suitable, if not I dont take such routes. I call this my no goat tracks rule.

Let me give you an example.

From Gamlingay to Eaton Socon

my first TomTom satnav which had such an option would send me along the B1040 to the A428 in Eltisely and along the A428 - Not a bad route and a safe one

If instead I took my preferred route along Cinques Road to Tetworth Hill and then along Drewels Lane it would keep telling me to go back to its route. Clearly it was preferring classified roads which is a safe bet but in this case a bad choice as the my route is 5 miles shorter several minutes faster and its quite a decent S2 road,
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.18384 ... 6656?hl=en

When it died the replacement had lost that option with the result that in Devon it would try and send me down narrow lanes with no passing places and high hedges just to save 100 m. In one case the lane was so narrow I sincerely doubt my car would even have got onto the road. Now I believe satnav units designed for HGV's still have such an option as my neighbour has one fitted in his motorhome but many LGV and HGV drivers seem to use the cheaper units designed for the mass market.

[Johnathan404]

Whilst us old fogies might use Road Atlases occasionally, the vast majority of new drivers are not going to be concerned about such things: they are just going to follow their SatNav, as per the current driving test. So they are really not interested in what standard of road they are driving along, just what is going to get them there in the most efficient means.

The problem with SatNavs though is that they often send you down back lanes that are unsuitable for heavy traffic. I don’t think it would be wise if the entire population used them to the extent that would make conventional maps obsolete.

You're way too late with that warning. Excluding map-nerds like us, almost everybody under 40 cannot function without a sat nav.

Besides the answers already given, the A-z super-scale maps make it easy to spot a HQDC, because you can see the unbroken dual carriageway.

[Ruperts Trooper]

It would be good if maps used different colours to distinguish freeflow dual carriageway from non-freeflow dual-carriageway as that helps heavily laden vehicles avoid energy- and time-consuming roundabouts and traffic lights which plague some journeys - other than that just distinguish between motorways, dual carriageways, S2s and S1s and avoid too much complexity.

This is actually a problem that does not have a single solution. Take this situation,

Route a)
Freeflow dual carriageway which is heavily congested
Route b)
Non-freeflow dual carriageway which is lightly loaded

I know which I would take and it is not a).

I understand that car drivers might select b) but heavy vehicles might well choose a) because the slower acceleration and higher fuel consumption getting away from roundabouts and traffic lights impacts journey time and costs.

[A9NWIL]

It would be good if there was different colours for Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway), Motorways, High Quality Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, Dual Carriageways (primary routes), Single Carriageway A routes, Single Carriageway Primary routes, Single Carriageway B routes, other roads.
But there ain't enough colours

Other= white
Single Carriageway B routes = Yellow
Single Carriageway Primary routes = Oragne
Single Carriageway A routes = Red
Dual Carriageways = Light green
Dual Carriageways (primary routes) = Dark Green
High Quality Dual Carriageways = Light Blue
Motorways = Dark Blue
Motorways (4+ Lanes and/or Smart Motorway) = Purple

SatNavs should also categorise those from 1 to 9, 1 being the highest capacity and 9 being the lowest, then route people over the highest capacity roads first based on how busy and how short the journey would be too.

What about single lane A routes with passing places? Eg A838 south of Durness?

OK Pink I cant think of another colour to use.

[A9NWIL]

Whilst us old fogies might use Road Atlases occasionally, the vast majority of new drivers are not going to be concerned about such things: they are just going to follow their SatNav, as per the current driving test. So they are really not interested in what standard of road they are driving along, just what is going to get them there in the most efficient means.

The problem with SatNavs though is that they often send you down back lanes that are unsuitable for heavy traffic. I don’t think it would be wise if the entire population used them to the extent that would make conventional maps obsolete.

You're way too late with that warning. Excluding map-nerds like us, almost everybody under 40 cannot function without a sat nav.

Besides the answers already given, the A-z super-scale maps make it easy to spot a HQDC, because you can see the unbroken dual carriageway.

Thats true on a real map its not too bad.

[hoagy_ytfc]

The problem with SatNavs though is that they often send you down back lanes that are unsuitable for heavy traffic. I don’t think it would be wise if the entire population used them to the extent that would make conventional maps obsolete.

I tend to believe in the opposite. They'll get better and better as more people use them - well some satnav types anyway. I used to advocate for TomTom with their HD traffic info, but the crowd-sourced data on Waze is SO much better now as more and more people use it

[KeithW]

It would be good if maps used different colours to distinguish freeflow dual carriageway from non-freeflow dual-carriageway as that helps heavily laden vehicles avoid energy- and time-consuming roundabouts and traffic lights which plague some journeys - other than that just distinguish between motorways, dual carriageways, S2s and S1s and avoid too much complexity.

This is actually a problem that does not have a single solution. Take this situation,

Route a)
Freeflow dual carriageway which is heavily congested
Route b)
Non-freeflow dual carriageway which is lightly loaded

I know which I would take and it is not a).

I understand that car drivers might select b) but heavy vehicles might well choose a) because the slower acceleration and higher fuel consumption getting away from roundabouts and traffic lights impacts journey time and costs.

The biggest problem for HGV drivers is running out of hours, slower acceleration and higher fuel consumption they could care less about but having to stop for several hours because the tachograph says so is another matter. I have known drivers who had to stop for 45 minutes just 10 miles from home and even worse had to spend the night in a laybay as they have exceeded their hours for the day.

[avtur]

.... The biggest problem for HGV drivers is running out of hours, slower acceleration and higher fuel consumption they could care less about but having to stop for several hours because the tachograph says so is another matter.....

Have you had any conversation with drivers recently??? I think you'll find that although drivers hours limits are very important (to some drivers) the number of fleets using telemetry to monitor vehicle performance means that many operational factors are VERY significant to drivers, with performance-related pay playing a part in the driving techniques.

There is a massive amount of HGV work that is conducted within the limitations of a normal working day, where route planning does not rely on nights out. Without doubt, there is a lot of "tramping" work which does require nights out, but it would be wrong to characterize all HGV work in that way.

"Having to stop for several hours because of the tacho" ... let's get this right, on day work that stop is 45 minutes ... and not several hours. If you're tramping then that is an overnight stop, a break in activity the same as any other working person. Drivers hours are restricted by drivers hours regulation AND EU working time directive; it is not draconian .. it is sensible.

[AndyB]

In a word, no, HQDCs and smart motorways should not have their own identity on British road atlases, and the simple reason is the number of colours required to achieve this.

Road atlases draw attention to primary roads (not necessarily trunk, the difference to a normal road user is infinitesimal and in practice relates only to who is responsible for the roads) and motorways, and sifting between colours isn't going to make that easy. It's good for roads enthusiasts, but too many colours is not going to help navigation - rather it will confuse navigation for little benefit.

There are ways and means of course. Roundabouts are marked differently from GSJs, so you can tell the difference between a normal dual carriageway and anything that falls between it and full GSJ/HQDC. Dual carriageways and motorways can be given a line down the middle, as many cartographers already do. Single track roads can be given white patches on their normal colour.

In more pragmatic terms, there aren't enough routes from A to B via different intermediate destinations for it to be worth it. The A1(M) and M1 aren't really alternatives to each other, for example. The M1 takes you to a different part of Birmingham from the M40, and so on and so forth. Different routes and different purposes for different roads.

The real choice is different standards of road for the one destination - and that's far more likely to be a motorway, an A road and possibly a minor road all of a similar length than two motorways or two dual carriageways.

[Rob590]

Excellent post by Andy B.

All mapping is involves deciding which 'differences' between things in the real world you want to depict on your map. Every single road is different, but some of these differences are not important enough to depict.

At the extreme end, we don't include the different geological conditions underneath roads because it has no impact on navigation.

More subtly, we don't expect road atlases to differentiate between the types of concrete or tarmac road surface used, because it's not important enough for most forms of navigation - but we might expect them to differentiate between metalled and unmetalled roads, and perhaps between cobbled and smooth roads, as these can be important for navigation.

The more differences you depict, the more complex your map is, which means it takes longer to read and understand. Road Atlases are designed to be easy-to-read maps that allow you to make fairly quick decisions for medium to long distance travel, largely between urban areas. If we want more detail, we look instead at more complex maps: such as OS Explorer or Landranger Maps, or the A-Z Street Maps. These depict a greater range of differences than Road Atlases, and make them more suitable for walking, cycling, or very rural/very urban driving.

Most atlases get it right, I think, in distinguishing between motorways, high quality/primary A roads, lower quality A roads, B roads, major unclassified roads, other roads, paths/tracks. I could just about be convinced that changes in the in the road network might warrant a new colouring that would incorporate 2 lane motorways and HQDC as one category, though there is the issue of the legal distinction of certain traffic being banned from using, motorways which would still have to be clear.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Excellent post by Andy B.

All mapping is involves deciding which 'differences' between things in the real world you want to depict on your map. Every single road is different, but some of these differences are not important enough to depict.

At the extreme end, we don't include the different geological conditions underneath roads because it has no impact on navigation.

More subtly, we don't expect road atlases to differentiate between the types of concrete or tarmac road surface used, because it's not important enough for most forms of navigation - but we might expect them to differentiate between metalled and unmetalled roads, and perhaps between cobbled and smooth roads, as these can be important for navigation.

The more differences you depict, the more complex your map is, which means it takes longer to read and understand. Road Atlases are designed to be easy-to-read maps that allow you to make fairly quick decisions for medium to long distance travel, largely between urban areas. If we want more detail, we look instead at more complex maps: such as OS Explorer or Landranger Maps, or the A-Z Street Maps. These depict a greater range of differences than Road Atlases, and make them more suitable for walking, cycling, or very rural/very urban driving.

Most atlases get it right, I think, in distinguishing between motorways, high quality/primary A roads, lower quality A roads, B roads, major unclassified roads, other roads, paths/tracks. I could just about be convinced that changes in the in the road network might warrant a new colouring that would incorporate 2 lane motorways and HQDC as one category, though there is the issue of the legal distinction of certain traffic being banned from using, motorways which would still have to be clear.

That last point is important for anyone banned from using motorways - and to a lesser extent, those with higher speed limits on motorways.