Did the former A74 south of Lesmahagow always feel so poor quality?

[RJDG14]

There's a remaining stretch of D2 on the B7078, which used to be the A74, to the south of Lesmahagow, and the whole stretch of road is in really poor condition, especially considering that until 1986 it formed the main link between Glasgow and Carlisle. The majority of the surface feels as though it hasn't been redone (at least when I was on it in person back in 2014) since it was bypassed by the motorway, with markings being almost invisible along much of it, and there is an overgrown grassy central reservation.

From various old pictures that I've found of the A74 in the 1980s and 1990s, the majority of it looked relatively similar to the Cumberland Gap section that existed until 2008, with a central barrier and hard strips in places (both of these were added sometime in the late 1970s I think), but this section looks at though it was left in the exact state that it was in when first opened. I would like to know if it looked and felt the same as now apart from having a decent surface during the early-mid 1980s in its later days as the A74, or if it also used to have a central barrier like pretty much the rest of the road did by then. I very much doubt this section ever had hard strips but it could have potentially had a barrier.

It's simply very difficult for me to visualise it in its current state as having been the main road during the 1980s. The section near Crawford, according to this photo, looked almost as good in places to the M50:

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ima ... TT-A74.jpg

[IanRB]

It's not D2 now; one carriageway was converted to a cycle track a couple of years ago. Prior to that it certainly seemed to have had no maintenance since the motorway was built.

[Ruperts Trooper]

In the 60/70s, the Lesmahagow bypass was the worst stretch of the old A74 as it was narrower, with HGVs running their outside tyres over the central white line making overtaking a bit daunting - thank goodness cars were narrower then. I don't recall the surface quality though.

There's a stretch of the A74 dual carriageway left at Red Moss Inn, between jcts 12-13 of the M74, where the southbound lane has become the A7078 and the northbound lane forms a long layby outside the Inn.

[Hdeng16]

It's not D2 now; one carriageway was converted to a cycle track a couple of years ago. Prior to that it certainly seemed to have had no maintenance since the motorway was built.

Yes such a shame - I know it remains D2 around the services and through the village, it was the last rural section to be removed.

The surface was atrocious though!

[RJDG14]

Here's the best I was able to find about its downgrading to S2 with a cycle lane:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34400&start=20

I didn't know about this, but since this is the case, I'm asking about how it was 5 years ago.

[IanRB]

Here's the best I was able to find about its downgrading to S2 with a cycle lane:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34400&start=20

I didn't know about this, but since this is the case, I'm asking about how it was 5 years ago.

Shocking, in all senses of the word.

[RJDG14]

Here's the best I was able to find about its downgrading to S2 with a cycle lane:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34400&start=20

I didn't know about this, but since this is the case, I'm asking about how it was 5 years ago.

Shocking, in all senses of the word.

No, I didn't mean how it was 5 years ago (I know from having been on it once in 2014) - what I meant was how the road looked back when it was part of the A74 in the early 1980s. Did it feel virtually the same except for having a decent surface, or was it of a somewhat higher standard with a central barrier and large green signage?

[Bryn666]

Here's the best I was able to find about its downgrading to S2 with a cycle lane:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34400&start=20

I didn't know about this, but since this is the case, I'm asking about how it was 5 years ago.

Shocking, in all senses of the word.

No, I didn't mean how it was 5 years ago (I know from having been on it once in 2014) - what I meant was how the road looked back when it was part of the A74 in the early 1980s. Did it feel virtually the same except for having a decent surface, or was it of a somewhat higher standard with a central barrier and large green signage?

That's the original surface worn down over time. It never had central barriers.

Remember this section was bypassed over 30 years ago.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

Shocking, in all senses of the word.

No, I didn't mean how it was 5 years ago (I know from having been on it once in 2014) - what I meant was how the road looked back when it was part of the A74 in the early 1980s. Did it feel virtually the same except for having a decent surface, or was it of a somewhat higher standard with a central barrier and large green signage?

That's the original surface worn down over time. It never had central barriers.

Remember this section was bypassed over 30 years ago.

M74 Junctions 8 to 11 (Larkhall to Poniel/Douglas Water) opened in October 1986, while Junction 11 to 12 (Millbank/A70) opened in November 1987. The M74 would be extended further in November 1991, when the section between the A70 and Junction 13 (Nether Abington/A702) was opened.

[Nwallace]

Oddly the surface of the cycle track (where it isn't over grown) is generally considerably better than the road, except for the fact most of it is unusable due to being over grown.
The road surface is basically bits of gravel sticking out of a tar layer, probably quite aged.

[RJDG14]

As there are no pictures online that I could find of this section from when it was the A74, I've made this mockup under fair use from a combination of pictures sourced from here and Geograph, showing this stretch at the standard which I pretty much suspect it would have been, although with modern vehicles:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88777 ... F7xaACTWaA

Is this pretty much how it looked in the early 1980s?

[Bryn666]

As there are no pictures online that I could find of this section from when it was the A74, I've made this mockup under fair use from a combination of pictures sourced from here and Geograph, showing this stretch at the standard which I pretty much suspect it would have been, although with modern vehicles:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88777 ... F7xaACTWaA

Is this pretty much how it looked in the early 1980s?

Thereabouts yeah.

Photos of it aren't common sadly; most are around Harthorpe Viaduct and from the aftermath of the Lockerbie disaster.

[WHBM]

In the 60/70s, the Lesmahagow bypass was the worst stretch of the old A74 as it was narrower, with HGVs running their outside tyres over the central white line making overtaking a bit daunting - thank goodness cars were narrower then. I don't recall the surface quality though.

I recall the same from the 1970s, the Lesmahagow section certainly felt narrower, possibly 22' carriageways rather than 24', and the surface was notably rough. I always through they must have used some local mine pitheap stone as aggregate.

I also seem to recall that when the hard strips were installed on the rest of the A74, mid-1970s, they were not put in here or at all north of Abington where the A702 turns to Edinburgh.

[Ruperts Trooper]

As there are no pictures online that I could find of this section from when it was the A74, I've made this mockup under fair use from a combination of pictures sourced from here and Geograph, showing this stretch at the standard which I pretty much suspect it would have been, although with modern vehicles:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88777 ... F7xaACTWaA

Is this pretty much how it looked in the early 1980s?

Looking at your image, my memory says the lanes weren't that wide even on the less-narrow stretches south of Lesmahagow - but it was nearly 50 years ago for me!

[RJDG14]

As there are no pictures online that I could find of this section from when it was the A74, I've made this mockup under fair use from a combination of pictures sourced from here and Geograph, showing this stretch at the standard which I pretty much suspect it would have been, although with modern vehicles:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88777 ... F7xaACTWaA

Is this pretty much how it looked in the early 1980s?

Thereabouts yeah.

Photos of it aren't common sadly; most are around Harthorpe Viaduct and from the aftermath of the Lockerbie disaster.

I remember that one user here uploaded a home movie they shot of the A74 in the mid 1980s to YouTube a few years ago, but it got taken down for using copyright infringing music that YouTube did not have a licence to let users use at the time. I've forgotten who they were, but it would be good if they could reupload it, assuming they still have the footage, this time silent.

[IanRB]

As there are no pictures online that I could find of this section from when it was the A74, I've made this mockup under fair use from a combination of pictures sourced from here and Geograph, showing this stretch at the standard which I pretty much suspect it would have been, although with modern vehicles:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88777 ... F7xaACTWaA

Is this pretty much how it looked in the early 1980s?

I had a vague memory of the surface being red tarmac, a quick check on Google Streetview, which still shows the old dual carriageway, does show patches of red in places, looking as if it had been surface dressed at some point.

[WHBM]

I had a vague memory of the surface being red tarmac, a quick check on Google Streetview, which still shows the old dual carriageway, does show patches of red in places, looking as if it had been surface dressed at some point.

Red surfacing was standard stuff across Scotland in the 1970s on main roads, including new build motorways and Edinburgh city streets. The aggregate came from the oil shale pitheaps, or "bings", in West Lothian, many of which were being levelled at the time. In contrast to how the Lesmahagow section turned out it was good quality stuff, completely inert after the processing of the industry 100 years before. Central Scotland in the 1880s was one of the world's largest producers of oil, although it was initially used for little other than lamps, paraffin heaters, and lubrication; petrol came later. The oil-bearing rock was dug from the surface and refined locally, it was the major industry of the area, and the sandstone residuals were dumped in large heaps, which until the 1970s were a characteristic both sides of the M8 between Edinburgh and Glasgow. A few remain, to the extent of being preserved as local monuments. The stone was screened to get roadstone size, possibly this section had used a different screen size.

https://www.geos.ed.ac.uk/homes/harvieb/bing.html

[RJDG14]

As there are no pictures online that I could find of this section from when it was the A74, I've made this mockup under fair use from a combination of pictures sourced from here and Geograph, showing this stretch at the standard which I pretty much suspect it would have been, although with modern vehicles:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88777 ... F7xaACTWaA

Is this pretty much how it looked in the early 1980s?

I had a vague memory of the surface being red tarmac, a quick check on Google Streetview, which still shows the old dual carriageway, does show patches of red in places, looking as if it had been surface dressed at some point.

I did that mockup in Photoshop late at night and forgot that many new road surfaces in the 70s were red. Some of the roads where I live (in Southern England) have not been dressed at all since the area was built in the mid 1980s and still have a reddish surface. Other than that, and the lack of 60mph (I'm pretty sure from what I've read that this stretch had a 60mph speed limit back in the 80s for safety reasons; I remembered to make a couple of clearway signs though) and no-U-turn signs, I would imagine my mockup is in most ways roughly accurate looking as to the way the road would have felt.

The A74 also had a couple of split sections further south similar to those on the M6 in Cumbria, and I wanted to know as well whether or not they were as well engineered (obviously ignoring the fact that the carriageways were narrower and the road had at-grade junctions in places) as the split level section of the M6.

It's also weird that I've been told this section never had a central barrier when there is one in all the pictures I've seen from the mid 80s of sections of the road further south. Most of the sections which had a barrier in the 80s were also of a higher standard anyway, despite having originally been built without one, so it makes little sense that they never installed one onto this poor quality section south of Lesmahagow.

[WHBM]

It's also weird that I've been told this section never had a central barrier when there is one in all the pictures I've seen from the mid 80s of sections of the road further south. Most of the sections which had a barrier in the 80s were also of a higher standard anyway, despite having originally been built without one, so it makes little sense that they never installed one onto this poor quality section south of Lesmahagow.

The central barriers also went in during the mid 1970s, in particular following a distressing crossover accident which I unfortunately passed the scene of one Sunday evening shortly after it had happened.

[Glenn A]

In the 60/70s, the Lesmahagow bypass was the worst stretch of the old A74 as it was narrower, with HGVs running their outside tyres over the central white line making overtaking a bit daunting - thank goodness cars were narrower then. I don't recall the surface quality though.

I recall the same from the 1970s, the Lesmahagow section certainly felt narrower, possibly 22' carriageways rather than 24', and the surface was notably rough. I always through they must have used some local mine pitheap stone as aggregate.

I also seem to recall that when the hard strips were installed on the rest of the A74, mid-1970s, they were not put in here or at all north of Abington where the A702 turns to Edinburgh.

The Lesmahagow by pass was built in the 1930s, when the volume of traffic was a lot lower and road technology primitive by today's standards. I do recall it being narrower than other sections of the A74 and passing very close to houses and a school.