Did the former A74 south of Lesmahagow always feel so poor quality?

[RJDG14]

I think it makes little sense that there haven't been any all-purpose roads built in recent years with hard shoulders, like many roads built during the 1960s and 1970s in Northern Ireland, and roads built during the past 30 years in the RoI. This won't be so much of an issue post-Brexit, but I have a feeling that full hard shoulders are included in the official EU guidelines for new major rural roads, yet Britain only seems to use 1m hard strips and outside of Northern Ireland has never complied with the standards.

[orudge]

but I have a feeling that full hard shoulders are included in the official EU guidelines for new major rural roads

What guidelines are these? Do you have a link?

[RJDG14]

I don't know for sure - I've just noticed that full width hard shoulders are commonplace on major all-purpose roads in many countries, including Ireland, the United States and many countries in mainland Europe, but for some reason not Great Britain.

[Bryn666]

I don't know for sure - I've just noticed that full width hard shoulders are commonplace on major all-purpose roads in many countries, including Ireland, the United States and many countries in mainland Europe, but for some reason not Great Britain.

You're probably thinking of the 'desirable' standards for the TERN, I don't think these are legally binding.

[Chris5156]

I don't know for sure - I've just noticed that full width hard shoulders are commonplace on major all-purpose roads in many countries, including Ireland, the United States and many countries in mainland Europe, but for some reason not Great Britain.

If it were a pan-European thing, it would apply to Italy, where even new high-speed dual carriageways and motorways are built with narrow or no hard shoulders, relatively narrow lanes and very high barriers hard up against the running lanes.

[RJDG14]

I know that the section of the former A74 just to the north of Carlisle had hard shoulders for a short distance, though only for about half of the way to Gretna, but there's this photo of a section near Crawford that was taken back in the mid 1980s, and it appears to have narrow hard shoulders (about M50 width) too:

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ima ... TT-A74.jpg

[Berk]

Google clearly shows the narrowness of the lanes here. Just about OK in cars, but again not dissimilar to Lincoln Road.

[Glenn A]

The A74 was of its time, rather like the D2 upgrade to the A1 in England in the sixties. Obviously a big improvement on what came before, but still had added hazards like at grade junctions, bus stops and farm tracks.

[Berk]

The B7078 makes that very clear - it seems turning gaps were a regular occurrence.

I’m sure I’ve only rarely seen them in England, and always on the older dual carriageways.

[Chris5156]

I know that the section of the former A74 just to the north of Carlisle had hard shoulders for a short distance, though only for about half of the way to Gretna, but there's this photo of a section near Crawford that was taken back in the mid 1980s, and it appears to have narrow hard shoulders (about M50 width) too:

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ima ... TT-A74.jpg

The road markings don’t make that look like a hard shoulder - it would surely have a continuous edge line. I don’t think you can be certain that’s a hard shoulder and not an acceleration lane after a junction, or the taper of a lay-by, or perhaps even some extra space on the left for visibility around the inside of the corner.

[Glenn A]

I know that the section of the former A74 just to the north of Carlisle had hard shoulders for a short distance, though only for about half of the way to Gretna, but there's this photo of a section near Crawford that was taken back in the mid 1980s, and it appears to have narrow hard shoulders (about M50 width) too:

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ima ... TT-A74.jpg

The section from jct 44 of the M6 to Gretna Interchange seems to be the highest quality, with some hard shoulders and better junctions, possibly as this was the last section to be dualled, and also the M6- Gretna section of the A74 was one of the busiest with the traffic for Stranraer. Yet even here there were some hazards such as the Rockcliffe at grade junction and the bus stop on the southern carriageway.

[chriscumbria]

The B7078 makes that very clear - it seems turning gaps were a regular occurrence.

I’m sure I’ve only rarely seen them in England, and always on the older dual carriageways.

Not just older dual carriageways... the section of the A66 that was dualled online west of Scotch Corner just over ten years ago is littered with right turns across the central reservation. I gather that some of these are now accident black spots.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

The section from jct 44 of the M6 to Gretna Interchange seems to be the highest quality, with some hard shoulders and better junctions, possibly as this was the last section to be dualled, and also the M6- Gretna section of the A74 was one of the busiest with the traffic for Stranraer. Yet even here there were some hazards such as the Rockcliffe at grade junction and the bus stop on the southern carriageway.

There was also a quite hazardous turnoff for Harker, which was later closed off.

[Glenn A]

The B7078 makes that very clear - it seems turning gaps were a regular occurrence.

I’m sure I’ve only rarely seen them in England, and always on the older dual carriageways.

Not just older dual carriageways... the section of the A66 that was dualled online west of Scotch Corner just over ten years ago is littered with right turns across the central reservation. I gather that some of these are now accident black spots.

The A1 used to have several that were sealed up for safety reasons, and I'd give anyone a tenner to be brave enough to cross the A74 in the eighties. Also towards the end of the Cumberland Gap era, the Rockcliffe junction was bouldered off for safety reasons( I do recall an horrific accident when I was a boy when a motorcylist pulled out and was literally ripped to pieces by a lorry in the era before speed limiters).

[Glenn A]

The section from jct 44 of the M6 to Gretna Interchange seems to be the highest quality, with some hard shoulders and better junctions, possibly as this was the last section to be dualled, and also the M6- Gretna section of the A74 was one of the busiest with the traffic for Stranraer. Yet even here there were some hazards such as the Rockcliffe at grade junction and the bus stop on the southern carriageway.

There was also a quite hazardous turnoff for Harker, which was later closed off.

Ditto Rockcliffe, there had been a few bad accidents on here involving vehicles joining the main carriageway. Also you had the bus stop to contend with, and on the other side, the very narrow entrance and exit from the Little Chef. However, at least the Cumberland Gap wasn't as nerve wracking as the older sections when you got further into Scotland. Of interest, there used to be a sign warning of pedestrians crossing at Beattock services, which seemed suicidal to me.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

The A1 used to have several that were sealed up for safety reasons, and I'd give anyone a tenner to be brave enough to cross the A74 in the eighties.

There were some nasty right turns across the A74 before the motorway was extended further south. The B7018 at Lesmahagow was one, but the Elvanfoot to Abington section included four at grade right turns, the A702 to Thornhill, the two exits for Crawford, and the B797 for Abington and Leadhills (drivers needed to use that junction to make several movements which were not possible at the A73 exit further north).

[Glenn A]

The A1 used to have several that were sealed up for safety reasons, and I'd give anyone a tenner to be brave enough to cross the A74 in the eighties.

There were some nasty right turns across the A74 before the motorway was extended further south. The B7018 at Lesmahagow was one, but the Elvanfoot to Abington section included four at grade right turns, the A702 to Thornhill, the two exits for Crawford, and the B797 for Abington and Leadhills (drivers needed to use that junction to make several movements which were not possible at the A73 exit further north).

No wonder these sections were the first to be replaced by D3M.

[Berk]

The more of these stories I hear, the more it makes you realise the road was designed in the 1950s.

Still didn’t need to be replaced as D3M though.

[orudge]

Didn’t need to be, no, but the D2M section of the M74 is noticeably slower than the D3M section (especially when you get lorries overtaking each other, etc). While it may have been a political “bribe”, the road is definitely better for having a third lane. Hopefully at some point the D2M section will be upgraded.

[Johnathan404]

The classic SABRE "it's not congested so there must be something wrong with it".