Odd dual carriageway

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Norfolktolancashire
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

marconaf wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 14:27
Norfolktolancashire wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 20:53 On my latest sortie into Norfolk I was driving along a rural side road in the middle of nowhere near Wroxham when I came across a "Dual Carriageway Ahead" sign. Thinking it was a mistake I was surprised to find a sort of D2 separated by trees.

Are there other examples of these types of D2 on minor rural roads?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.75497 ... 312!8i6656
Fascinating example, I spent a couple of years recently in Norfolk and drove all over, the roads are random in that literally in the middle of nowhere with nothing at either end, you get a really decent stretch of straight, wide and even wider verges (places you could put the A1 through between the hedges! After a couple of miles reverts to narrow and twisty.

Having discussed it with colleagues I was told it was often a legacy of WW2 when Norfolk was an armed camp, not just the airfields but all the Army and both their mass of supporting infrastructure (fuel dumps, vehicle parks, accommodation, HQs, ammo dumps and so on and so on). Often roads and choke points were improved just in their local area to deal with congestion and the movement of outsize loads (stuff assembled locally at one depot and then moved to an airfield for instance).

In your case I note the field to the South at the Eastern end is left alone and has a large dark rectangle in it (concrete or asphalt pad under weeds?), with cross overs in the DC aligned with each end of that and a wide entrance with concrete looking bollards set well apart for a gate perhaps. I suspect some kind of WW2 depot with lots of vehicle moves and thus an emergency build of this lane just to help deconflict them in the vicinity. Be interesting to know the truth!

It certainly looks like an old concrete strip in that field, OS maps dont show anything but thats not unknown for a disused WW2 depot. It is of course close to ex RAF Coltishall to the west, which interestingly is now nearly completely covered with solar panels.
I’ve always been interested in the same stuff - Burnham Beeches near Slough is a lovely forested area now all closed off to vehicles, but criss-crossed with roads and verges/hardstanding - as the signs there say it was a vehicle (marinisation) preparation depot for dday and more.
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Norfolktolancashire
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

Dan Lockton wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 13:52
When I was a kid I spent hours poring over a collection of OS maps my parents had, and this particular dual carriageway, as marked on the Landranger, fascinated and mystified me immensely*. I imagined maybe it was some kind of test track, or an old runway, or something (as it's near Coltishall), and living hundreds of miles away, never got the chance to see what it was really like. When Google Streetview came about, I think this was one of the first places I ever looked at!

*Another place was the B-roads between Thetford and Watton, disappearing and becoming a danger zone between the early 60s and the 70s, which I now know was the Stanford Training Area, but I imagined was due to some terrible disaster.
Due to a relative having legal access to drive through the Stanford Battle area, as a kid I was driven along some of those roads and the landscape and disused villages were just a time warp from the 1930's.
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by marconaf »

STANTA roads are open now aren’t they?

Having spent a bit of time on STANTA the ruins are fascinating places - building before wiring and even plumbing had got very prevalent!


As a slight deviation- Mile End Park in London is actually former residential streets & factory areas. Bombed to near extinction and turned into a park post war. The street layout can clearly be seen, what cant be is that literally a foot or so under the park are still all the old foundations, pipes and so on, when they started redeveloping it in the late 90s (had been pretty basic open grass until then bar the rather grotty stadium?, a lot was very evident.
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by SteveA30 »

This one is on Cocklebury Road in Chippenham, between the station and the Wiltshire History Centre, where I was headed. This is the new category of D Tree1 or, DT1.
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by PhilC »

SteveA30 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:40 This one is on Cocklebury Road in Chippenham, between the station and the Wiltshire History Centre, where I was headed. This is the new category of D Tree1 or, DT1.
Another DT1 in Acocks Green, Birmingham.

https://goo.gl/maps/wPFKu61dmnx5dBpp8
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Bryn666 »

The Old Docks Approach Road in Tilbury is very odd given how it recycled bits of an existing GSJ to tie into the realigned link to the A13. Surprised it was retained like that.
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Big L »

Robert Kilcoyne wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 20:47 Another DT1 in Birmingham:-
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.46714 ... 6656?hl=en
That’s a central reservation with trees on it.
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by jervi »

Another type of odd dual carriageway. Each carriageway on either side of a canal (or river).
Obviously where a canal or river goes, a road or track will naturally form on either side, here in the UK they are mostly footpaths, however in other countries i've noticed track and roads from regularly.
But what about each side of said river/canal being a carriageway of the same road, it makes sense in practice unless access to your property is on it.
Any examples of this in the UK?
Example from Flanders on the R4: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.05611 ... 312!8i6656
Examples in India (sat), you will find this on pretty much 100% of canals: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@21.91071 ... a=!3m1!1e3
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Owain »

PhilC wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 00:38 There's an unusual stretch of dual carriageway past Warwick University in Coventry.

https://goo.gl/maps/ksBcovjyKsFsF3zL8
The purpose-built university campuses dating from the 1960s are great for that sort of thing. For example:

- Aberystwyth University

- University of East Anglia (Norwich)

- University of Sussex (Brighton)

- Keele University (Newcastle-under-Lyme)

- and I can remember the days when this one was NSL!
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by jackal »

jervi wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 23:30 Another type of odd dual carriageway. Each carriageway on either side of a canal (or river).
Obviously where a canal or river goes, a road or track will naturally form on either side, here in the UK they are mostly footpaths, however in other countries i've noticed track and roads from regularly.
But what about each side of said river/canal being a carriageway of the same road, it makes sense in practice unless access to your property is on it.
Any examples of this in the UK?
Example from Flanders on the R4: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.05611 ... 312!8i6656
Examples in India (sat), you will find this on pretty much 100% of canals: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@21.91071 ... a=!3m1!1e3
In Sao Paulo there's a huge collector/distributor system centred on the Tiete and Pinheiros Rivers:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-23.5253 ... 526214,16z

There's also a major C/D lane stretch in Valencia around the Turia:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@39.43613 ... 700538,16z

And there's one built underground in Madrid a decade ago:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@40.39743 ... 103333,17z

The original construction of the M-30 in the 60s/70s also required the Abronigal river to be sent underground. We are definitely pretty conservative with our use of rivers by comparison!
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by vlad »

Owain wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 15:14 The purpose-built university campuses dating from the 1960s are great for that sort of thing. For example:
- Keele University (Newcastle-under-Lyme)
That one dates to the 1990s. The original entrance was at the original lodge further up the hill here. It wasn't even controlled by traffic lights to begin with....
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by the cheesecake man »

This week The Wacky Adventures of TCM visited Market Harborough where this strange pointless short residential dual carriageway was encountered.
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by KeithW »

the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 13:27 This week The Wacky Adventures of TCM visited Market Harborough where this strange pointless short residential dual carriageway was encountered.
We live in a sad world when having trees and a grassed area in the middle of a residential street is regarded as pointless.

If I sound bitter its because our local residents association had to work hard to prevents this green space being bulldozed flat and a block of flats built on it.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52810 ... authuser=0
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by the cheesecake man »

KeithW wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 13:49
the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 13:27 This week The Wacky Adventures of TCM visited Market Harborough where this strange pointless short residential dual carriageway was encountered.
We live in a sad world when having trees and a grassed area in the middle of a residential street is regarded as pointless.

If I sound bitter its because our local residents association had to work hard to prevents this green space being bulldozed flat and a block of flats built on it.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52810 ... authuser=0
That space is big enough to be a valuable amenity. Western Avenue, Market Harborough isn't big enough for a gnat's picnic.
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by KeithW »

the cheesecake man wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 13:03
KeithW wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 13:49
the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 13:27 This week The Wacky Adventures of TCM visited Market Harborough where this strange pointless short residential dual carriageway was encountered.
We live in a sad world when having trees and a grassed area in the middle of a residential street is regarded as pointless.

If I sound bitter its because our local residents association had to work hard to prevents this green space being bulldozed flat and a block of flats built on it.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52810 ... authuser=0
That space is big enough to be a valuable amenity. Western Avenue, Market Harborough isn't big enough for a gnat's picnic.

Where there is space enough for something like that which makes the place more human I am all for it.
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Nwallace »

Ahhem
https://goo.gl/maps/1CNqo89mtf3Ju6R99

Could be one for an away day?
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by jervi »

Nwallace wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 20:08 Ahhem
https://goo.gl/maps/1CNqo89mtf3Ju6R99

Could be one for an away day?
I'd classify that as a natural traffic island, for sheep or something.
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Norfolktolancashire
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

jervi wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 22:12
Nwallace wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 20:08 Ahhem
https://goo.gl/maps/1CNqo89mtf3Ju6R99

Could be one for an away day?
I'd classify that as a natural traffic island, for sheep or something.
There's a few static caravans along that road that looked lived in, must be well anchored down up there in that windy place!
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Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Richard_Fairhurst »

jervi wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 14:53Road as described like this one https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.86459 ... 312!8i6656
I'd just say D1.
While the road surface may be wide, the actual driveable space is still restricted to one vehicle, although often I don't see overtaking restrictions (either signed or solid white lines) on these types of road, so I wouldn't call it an D1.5
Sure you could call them WD1 though.
This is nicely done: https://goo.gl/maps/sE9auzXudJuQq3Yy8

Hatching a former D2 but the actual usable space is still two vehicles... as long as one of those vehicles is a bicycle. A good use of otherwise redundant space, and genuinely useful in an area where you're pretty much forced to use the A38 if you're cycling anywhere. It's a shame this isn't done in other hatching schemes.

(Cycle campaign geeks will recognise the amusement value that this is just outside Cheltenham & Tewkesbury. It's also only a couple of miles away from one of the most badly chosen cycle routes I've ever seen, but that's another story.)
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