Odd dual carriageway

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
Big L
Deputy Site Manager
Posts: 7500
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 20:36
Location: B5012

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Big L »

There's a few places around suburban south Birmingham, especially including the A4040, where there are parallel two-way roads.
Make poetry history.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Help with maps using the new online calibrator.
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15721
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Chris Bertram »

Big L wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 14:12 There's a few places around suburban south Birmingham, especially including the A4040, where there are parallel two-way roads.
In those cases, however, it's pretty clear which is the main road and which is a service road.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
swissferry
Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 20:42

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by swissferry »

KevS wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 13:53 We've mentioned Ulster Avenue in Ipswich here before, which bizarrely was treated as two parallel two way roads until the late eighties when the council suddenly realised that,with three schools in the close vicinity and a shopping parade, this was asking for trouble, and so several signs and a spot of road marking later, it became an actual dual carriageway.

But there is another one in the town which was never changed: Moffat Avenue. You'll note no signs or anything advising which is the correct side. And so you do get some coming down the "wrong" side which is a bit alarming. And then to compound matters, you have this halfway along where it turns into a square, with Ross Road going off to the left, and Fife Road to the right. Moffat Avenue continues on the other side. What are you supposed to do here? Treat it as a roundabout? That silver car parked on the pavement on the right hand side - if he came from where the picture is taken, did he go all the way round, or did he just turn right at that first gap immediately in front of us. There have been accidents here over the years, but I guess the vital difference between this and Ulster Avenue is that this isn't on a bus route.
Reminds me of the McCubbin Fountain in Girvan which resembles a roundabout and has keep left signs on two approaches but most people go the "wrong" way round if they want to turn right here.
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16896
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Chris5156 »

swissferry wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 21:00Reminds me of the McCubbin Fountain in Girvan which resembles a roundabout and has keep left signs on two approaches but most people go the "wrong" way round if they want to turn right here.
How strange!

It's effectively a T-junction with a very big traffic island, but the priority has been messed up with extra Give Way lines and an absence of centre line. It's unusual to find something so ambiguous - you'd expect a weird layout like this to have been rationalised years ago.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15721
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Chris Bertram »

Chris Bertram wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 20:47
Big L wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 14:12 There's a few places around suburban south Birmingham, especially including the A4040, where there are parallel two-way roads.
In those cases, however, it's pretty clear which is the main road and which is a service road.
I should perhaps add that the one really odd one where it wasn't clear what was going on, Olton Boulevard East, has now been modified such that the carriageway that was officially the "minor" road now has No Entry signs at either end. There is access halfway along from the B-road side, and it remains two-way apart from each end, but you can no longer use it as an alternative through route.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26147
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Owain »

Want to entertain roads fans with weird stuff?

Always post something from Northern Ireland:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RZT2aFygXK4Podm2A

And if that fails to impress, deploy the heavy artillery (branded "Made in Italy"):
https://maps.app.goo.gl/NiVsaPhd77RdapPe6
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
User avatar
Big L
Deputy Site Manager
Posts: 7500
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 20:36
Location: B5012

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Big L »

If you're invoking Italy you need to mention the various places where the carriageways swap sides. A few on motorways around Genoa.
Make poetry history.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Help with maps using the new online calibrator.
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki.
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26147
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Owain »

Big L wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 09:53 If you're invoking Italy you need to mention the various places where the carriageways swap sides. A few on motorways around Genoa.
The loop-the-loop on the A6 southbound is my favourite....
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
User avatar
Norfolktolancashire
Member
Posts: 1185
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 22:34
Location: Cornwall

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

Owain wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 09:59
Big L wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 09:53 If you're invoking Italy you need to mention the various places where the carriageways swap sides. A few on motorways around Genoa.
The loop-the-loop on the A6 southbound is my favourite....
And this beauty I have travelled on near Chamonix, France

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.9317904 ... 312!8i6656
User avatar
Alderpoint
Member
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 14:25
Location: Leamington Spa

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Alderpoint »

KevS wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 13:53 But there is another one in the town which was never changed: Moffat Avenue. You'll note no signs or anything advising which is the correct side.
We've got one of those in Leamington: Beverley Road. The obvious route is keep left at both ends, but it really confuses people if you go the "wrong" way.
Let it snow.
KevS
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 21:08
Location: Norwich

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by KevS »

Alderpoint wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 19:12
KevS wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 13:53 But there is another one in the town which was never changed: Moffat Avenue. You'll note no signs or anything advising which is the correct side.


We've got one of those in Leamington: Beverley Road. The obvious route is keep left at both ends, but it really confuses people if you go the "wrong" way.
Just had a look on street view, there's give way markings at either end of the split, giving the impression of parallel two way roads, which is certainly more that Moffatt Avenue had - but admittedly if you came in from one of those side streets, you wouldn't be sure.
It's a ticket to plastic death
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1594
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by jervi »

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.83161 ... 56!5m1!1e1
Not really a dual carriageway as there are no keep left signs, but still two parallel carriageways which are very odd.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by KeithW »

jervi wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 08:57 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.83161 ... 56!5m1!1e1
Not really a dual carriageway as there are no keep left signs, but still two parallel carriageways which are very odd.
Its not uncommon in residential areas. This is really a fairly typical close. There is one rather near where I live where the council made it a one way road. Today of course no developer would waste this much space even in the north east where land is relatively cheap, That said the houses are very popular with families.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.54645 ... 92!5m1!1e1
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15721
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Chris Bertram »

KeithW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:00Its not uncommon in residential areas. This is really a fairly typical close. There is one rather near where I live where the council made it a one way road. Today of course no developer would waste this much space even in the north east where land is relatively cheap, That said the houses are very popular with families.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.54645 ... 92!5m1!1e1
That's on the site of the former Prissick school base where my father was head teacher of the 11-16 comprehensive school (there was also a 6th form college on the site).
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
jonnyf90
Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 22:53
Location: Between Derby and Nottingham

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by jonnyf90 »

Do D1s still have an NSL of 70 for cars and car-derived vans?
Una vida, bien vivida.
Veni, vidi, vici.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15721
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Odd dual carriageway

Post by Chris Bertram »

jonnyf90 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:07 Do D1s still have an NSL of 70 for cars and car-derived vans?
It's the number of carriageways, not the number of lanes that's the determining factor, so yes, I think.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Post Reply