New M5 Junction 10 Planned

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Richardf
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New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by Richardf »

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/n ... 502449.amp

Looks like a good idea. But should they upgrade the existing junction or build a new one elsewhere and divert the A4019? Thoughts?
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by IAN »

The start of the article is rather misleading since the plan is to make the existing junction full access rather than building a new junction 10 in a different place, which would be a rather bizarre thing to do!

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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

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It's difficult to judge without seeing more detail but as a former local of sorts, I've always wondered why J10 wasn't upgraded sooner given the way the A40 approach to Cheltenham (J11) get so overloaded, and also given the extent of development, especially retail, on the N/W side of Cheltenham, including directly on the A4019.
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

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I semi-regularly use the junction and whilst I love the looped slip road for its driving appeal, I too have often wondered why no attempts have ever been made to increase access in other directions. I once decided out of curiosity to drive to J11 from the Swindon (village) area, rather than direct to J10 as I normally do, and soon regretted my decision given how congested the roads were.

The junction is fairly well constrained by development in the NW/SE quadrants, making me think a parclo-type solution would work well; potentially one could reuse part of the loop to do this.
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

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mapboy wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 16:44 I semi-regularly use the junction and whilst I love the looped slip road for its driving appeal, I too have often wondered why no attempts have ever been made to increase access in other directions. I once decided out of curiosity to drive to J11 from the Swindon (village) area, rather than direct to J10 as I normally do, and soon regretted my decision given how congested the roads were.

The junction is fairly well constrained by development in the NW/SE quadrants, making me think a parclo-type solution would work well; potentially one could reuse part of the loop to do this.
When first constructed, this junction was a temporary terminus of M5 from the north. SB traffic not wanting to go to Cheltenham merged into a single lane which continued around the loop, which was two-way during this period and allowed traffic to turn left onto A4019 to access A38 at the Coombe Hill traffic lights. Obviously traffic was lighter back then, but on summer Saturdays you were still in for a long wait to exit the motorway, and traffic was backed up a long way from the lights. Oh happy days ...
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

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How did this section open? Was it D2M with later widening or was it D3M to start off with? If the former, I’d have expected some sort of reconstruction/modification already to have taken place as part of the widening process as at so many other places further north on the M5.
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

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I think it would need a new junction just to the south, modifying the junction for all access now would be complicated by the properties in the NW and SE corners which is where movements need to be added. Widening the loop and make it 2 way would be simple but would only benefit A38 traffic which must be fairly light and does not help Cheltenham traffic at all!

I suppose a lengthy link/slip road past the houses would work for A4019 to M5 SB but other than another loop in the NW corner (which would cause weaving problems with the existing loop) I don't know how to add the M5 NB to A4019 Cheltenham bound movement.

A cheaper option than a whole new full junction elsewhere would be a second limited junction to add the missing movements with a link road to the existing A4019.
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by M4Simon »

Richardf wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 17:40 I think it would need a new junction just to the south, modifying the junction for all access now would be complicated by the properties in the NW and SE corners which is where movements need to be added. Widening the loop and make it 2 way would be simple but would only benefit A38 traffic which must be fairly light and does not help Cheltenham traffic at all!

I suppose a lengthy link/slip road past the houses would work for A4019 to M5 SB but other than another loop in the NW corner (which would cause weaving problems with the existing loop) I don't know how to add the M5 NB to A4019 Cheltenham bound movement.

A cheaper option than a whole new full junction elsewhere would be a second limited junction to add the missing movements with a link road to the existing A4019.
The houses to the southeast are the biggest issue. You've either got to surround them with roads or find a way of squeezing a road between the westernmost house and the motorway.

The northbound offslip is easy. Just take it immediately west of the northbound onslip and tie into the A4019 with a roundabout.

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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by jackal »

It should be possible to add the missing movements while retaining the existing ones as freeflow:

M5 J10 - Copy.png
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

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jackal wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 18:50 It should be possible to add the missing movements while retaining the existing ones as freeflow:


M5 J10 - Copy.png
That's certainly a neat way of adding the required extra movements but I wonder about capacity/safety with four plus flows leaving or joining the A4019, and some movements requiring traffic to cross the central reservation at grade?

Since the aim seems to be to facilitate/encourage use of J10, won't the increased traffic require a roundabout (obviously difficult in that location) or something to handle the volumes better?
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by Chris Bertram »

roadtester wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 17:08 How did this section open? Was it D2M with later widening or was it D3M to start off with? If the former, I’d have expected some sort of reconstruction/modification already to have taken place as part of the widening process as at so many other places further north on the M5.
It was 3-lane, as were all the sections south of J8 (apart from through Almondsbury, which remains 2-lane).
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by Vierwielen »

roadtester wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 19:04
jackal wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 18:50 It should be possible to add the missing movements while retaining the existing ones as freeflow:


M5 J10 - Copy.png
That's certainly a neat way of adding the required extra movements but I wonder about capacity/safety with four plus flows leaving or joining the A4019, and some movements requiring traffic to cross the central reservation at grade?

Since the aim seems to be to facilitate/encourage use of J10, won't the increased traffic require a roundabout (obviously difficult in that location) or something to handle the volumes better?
This is pretty much the standard layout in the Netherlands and Germany.
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by Berk »

IAN wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 15:56 The start of the article is rather misleading since the plan is to make the existing junction full access rather than building a new junction 10 in a different place, which would be a rather bizarre thing to do!

Ian (M5 Driver)
Yes, I was confused too. They spoke as if keeping the current 10, but adding a brand new junction was part of the plan. :?
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by jackal »

Vierwielen wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 19:13
roadtester wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 19:04
jackal wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 18:50 It should be possible to add the missing movements while retaining the existing ones as freeflow:


M5 J10 - Copy.png
That's certainly a neat way of adding the required extra movements but I wonder about capacity/safety with four plus flows leaving or joining the A4019, and some movements requiring traffic to cross the central reservation at grade?

Since the aim seems to be to facilitate/encourage use of J10, won't the increased traffic require a roundabout (obviously difficult in that location) or something to handle the volumes better?
This is pretty much the standard layout in the Netherlands and Germany.
Yes, it's a completely vanilla signalised parclo. In fact I somewhat catered to site restrictions and minimalist British sensibilities by using only five ramps - eight is quite usual in Ontario, for instance. The signals can be swapped out for roundabouts if necessary.
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by jackal »

Berk wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 19:14
IAN wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 15:56 The start of the article is rather misleading since the plan is to make the existing junction full access rather than building a new junction 10 in a different place, which would be a rather bizarre thing to do!

Ian (M5 Driver)
Yes, I was confused too. They spoke as if keeping the current 10, but adding a brand new junction was part of the plan. :?
When will we know where the new road will actually go?
There are no details of any exact alignment at this early stage. If the bid is successful, we
will press on with design work and look at possible routes with full consultation with the
community (likely to take place in Spring 2020). It is possible that the new junction will be
at the same location as the present junction, but it could be a km or so to the north or
south. There will be a new link road from the new motorway junction to the A4019 serving
the west of Cheltenham area.

https://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/medi ... qs-v16.pdf
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 18:50 It should be possible to add the missing movements while retaining the existing ones as freeflow:


M5 J10 - Copy.png
That would work but HE only believe in two bridge roundabouts or dumbbells for these types of road so they'll come up with something ridiculous that involves CPOs... just watch.
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by RichardA35 »

Local authority has prepared, submitted and (most importantly it seems) has announced that it has submitted an updated business case to a government funding body for infrastructure improvements to support a major housing development.
This application is but one of many to be whittled down, value engineeed, priority ranked and slotted into a programme to suit the available cash which is never enough to fully fund all aspirations.
Given the option development hasn't even started and the council seem to want the scheme development to be fully funded rather than seed it themselves, there is an outside chance this won't get off the ground.
I reckon it is a bit early to start discussing junction designs but hey ho...
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by Berk »

A “long-term aspiration” then. Wake me up when I’m claiming my pension. 💀
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

Post by Alderpoint »

jackal wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 18:50 It should be possible to add the missing movements while retaining the existing ones as freeflow:
They are saying it's £220m to improve the junction, so it must be more than that?
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Re: New M5 Junction 10 Planned

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roadtester wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 19:04 Since the aim seems to be to facilitate/encourage use of J10, won't the increased traffic require a roundabout (obviously difficult in that location) or something to handle the volumes better?
No it won't. It will simply require the signalised intersections to have a sufficient number of lanes.
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