Guided Busways

[the cheesecake man]

In my humble experience the Cambridgeshire one is great: (OK if I lived in Cambridgeshire so had to pay for the construction disaster I might not).

Buses can continue off the fixed route into the centre of Cambridge instead of dumping passengers at an inconveniently located station.
Residents of St Ives and Huntingdon can get direct services to Cambridge rather than having to get into the town centre and change (or find this too slow and inconvenient so drive instead).
Buses avoid congestion with a dedicated route.
Buses can travel faster on the guided busway than they could safely do on a normal road.
Villages get buses every few minutes where otherwise they'd get just a few a day if they were lucky.
The route takes up less space than a conventional road would as buses can travel closer together.


However the Leeds and Bradford ones are pants:

They are too short to achieve any of the potential advantages above.
They are on roads so take up more room than a conventional bus lane.
They cost more than a conventional bus lane would have done.
They restrict competition and reduce flexibility for operators due to the adapted buses required only for short sections of the route.
They leave bus stops feeling unsafe stuck in the middle of dual carriageways.
This can't be a good place to put waiting passengers for air quality either.

I haven't used Luton or (non-guided) Runcorn so can't comment on those.

[B1040]

Not sure whether to post this here or on Numpty Overload.
The bridge that carries the A14 over the busway near Orchard Park /CRC was closed temporarily for the A14 works back in the summer. May 2019?
This involved significant alterations to the bus routes and much longer journeys for the A and D buses that had a haul through Orchard Park and over the Histon Junction.
Stagecoach have only now decided to rewrite their timetable.

[BOH]

It might be a silly question but what are the advantages of a busway being "guided"? Sounds like alot of expensive technology for technology sake...why not just a dedicated bus lane with a transponder in each bus to automatically open a barrier at the start and finish of the dedicated lane?

[fras]

It might be a silly question but what are the advantages of a busway being "guided"? Sounds like alot of expensive technology for technology sake...why not just a dedicated bus lane with a transponder in each bus to automatically open a barrier at the start and finish of the dedicated lane?

As per Runcorn, you mean ? Here are a couple of crossings complete with traffic lights.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.31605 ... 6656?hl=en

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.31312 ... 6656?hl=en

I have never seen a bus on these , or been stopped at the lights while a bus crosses. Obviously it's not possible to "drive" down them using GSV ! From what can be seen from the crossings, they are maintained in fairly good condition.

[BOH]

It might be a silly question but what are the advantages of a busway being "guided"? Sounds like alot of expensive technology for technology sake...why not just a dedicated bus lane with a transponder in each bus to automatically open a barrier at the start and finish of the dedicated lane?

As per Runcorn, you mean ? Here are a couple of crossings complete with traffic lights.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.31605 ... 6656?hl=en

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.31312 ... 6656?hl=en

I have never seen a bus on these , or been stopped at the lights while a bus crosses. Obviously it's not possible to "drive" down them using GSV ! From what can be seen from the crossings, they are maintained in fairly good condition.

No I meant generally, what is the point and advantage of a "guided" busway as opposed to a bus only lane and the driver drives and steers as per usual? Given a driver is present on the bus anyway, why not simply steer the bus on the dedicated sections too?

[Herned]

It might be a silly question but what are the advantages of a busway being "guided"? Sounds like alot of expensive technology for technology sake...why not just a dedicated bus lane with a transponder in each bus to automatically open a barrier at the start and finish of the dedicated lane?

The main one is that they allow a narrower route to be used than if it was unguided, similar to a railway buses can pass each other much closer. The Cambridge route was built on a single track railway for example, as I think was the Luton one.

[Ruperts Trooper]

It might be a silly question but what are the advantages of a busway being "guided"? Sounds like alot of expensive technology for technology sake...why not just a dedicated bus lane with a transponder in each bus to automatically open a barrier at the start and finish of the dedicated lane?

The main one is that they allow a narrower route to be used than if it was unguided, similar to a railway buses can pass each other much closer. The Cambridge route was built on a single track railway for example, as I think was the Luton one.

The Cambridge-St.Ives-March railway was twin track throughout but once the March-St.Ives section was closed, the remainder had one track removed but all the infrastructure remained as a twin track railway.

[FleetlinePhil]

It might be a silly question but what are the advantages of a busway being "guided"? Sounds like alot of expensive technology for technology sake...why not just a dedicated bus lane with a transponder in each bus to automatically open a barrier at the start and finish of the dedicated lane?

As others have now pointed out, for busways built upon old railway formations, there is not normally enough width to provide a road that is safe for buses to pass at any speed. However, Gosport seems to manage without guidance using an old rail line.

On the cost front, I don't know if any members may have a better idea of the comparative cost of laying guided bus tracks and a new, conventional, high-quality road surface, but I suspect it may not be that great.

There is an additional cost in the modifications required to the buses' steering systems, which incidentally also dictates a certain amount of manoeuvrability is lost when on normal roads, as it is imperative that that the guide wheels do not come into contact with a kerb.

As per Runcorn, you mean ? Here are a couple of crossings complete with traffic lights.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.31605 ... 6656?hl=en

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.31312 ... 6656?hl=en

I have never seen a bus on these , or been stopped at the lights while a bus crosses. Obviously it's not possible to "drive" down them using GSV ! From what can be seen from the crossings, they are maintained in fairly good condition.

Parts of the Runcorn Busway are still used by Arriva North West serves 1 and 2 on fairly decent headways, but I think some sections were built to link outlying industrial estates and had a much less regular service. Unfortunately I have donated my 1970's era Crosville timetables to a museum so I can't immediately check. It was opened in 1971 as an integral part of the New Town, so building new busways to a width of 22ft was just one part of the overall construction work on a (mostly) virgin site. That still feels a little tight to pass two full-size buses, although I gather there is a 20mph speed limit, if anyone can confirm or correct that?

I oddly never went on it in my bus enthusiast days, but I was once taken to the Shopping City elevated station by my father, probably a couple of years after it opened. Was this the future, we wondered?

[KeithW]

It might be a silly question but what are the advantages of a busway being "guided"? Sounds like alot of expensive technology for technology sake...why not just a dedicated bus lane with a transponder in each bus to automatically open a barrier at the start and finish of the dedicated lane?

1) You can use a narrower transport corridor. The 6-metre (20 ft) width of the busway is narrower than the 9.3-metre (31 ft) width of a single-carriageway rural all-purpose road built to 2009 standards this allows vehicles travelling at up to 55 mph to pass very close to each other.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.23408 ... authuser=0

2) Ordinary vehicles cannot use the route, if they try they get stuck.

3) You can incorporate a pedestrian/cycle path on the maintenance road because the buses are restricted by the busway.

4) The technology is really not that complex. The bus is steered using a guide wheel running against a concrete curb. Think of it as a tramway where the public service vehicles can also use normal roads.

[Mark Hewitt]

2) Ordinary vehicles cannot use the route, if they try they get stuck.

And this is an important one politically. For such a route to work it has to operate almost like a railway, whereas if built as a normal road there will eventually be pressure to allow other vehicles.

[Chris Bertram]

Redditch has (non-guided) busways, with "local bus and cycle only" signs guarding their entrances. I can't say whether compliance is good with this, but Google Streetview seems to cover quite a lot of their length. I assume that Google don't have a Streetview bus as part of their surveying fleet.

[Octaviadriver]

As per Runcorn, you mean ? Here are a couple of crossings complete with traffic lights.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.31605 ... 6656?hl=en

It's odd that the signs prohibiting traffic on the bus route (apart from local buses) also prohibits pedestrians, but there are footpaths, destination signposts and pedestrian lights next to the prohibition signs for pedestrians using the footpath beside the bus route!

[the cheesecake man]

2) Ordinary vehicles cannot use the route, if they try they get stuck.

And this is an important one politically. For such a route to work it has to operate almost like a railway, whereas if built as a normal road there will eventually be pressure to allow other vehicles.

Indeed some sections of the Runcorn busway have been converted to normal roads.

[mikehindsonevans]

It might be a silly question but what are the advantages of a busway being "guided"? Sounds like alot of expensive technology for technology sake...why not just a dedicated bus lane with a transponder in each bus to automatically open a barrier at the start and finish of the dedicated lane?

1) You can use a narrower transport corridor. The 6-metre (20 ft) width of the busway is narrower than the 9.3-metre (31 ft) width of a single-carriageway rural all-purpose road built to 2009 standards this allows vehicles travelling at up to 55 mph to pass very close to each other.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.23408 ... authuser=0

2) Ordinary vehicles cannot use the route, if they try they get stuck.

3) You can incorporate a pedestrian/cycle path on the maintenance road because the buses are restricted by the busway.

4) The technology is really not that complex. The bus is steered using a guide wheel running against a concrete curb. Think of it as a tramway where the public service vehicles can also use normal roads.

As you know, I am living and working in Cambridge during the week. The Busway is great and I first came across it just after it opened.

I walk along part of the foot/cycle path alongside the Busway, south from the city centre.

The current extended closure of the section under the A14 for the widening (initially "for a month" back in the summer but continuing now for many more months,) is a comprehensive spanner in the works.

The car traps are very effective at deterring non-buses from entering the Busway.

After two spectacular crashes, speed-display kit has ensured that the bus drivers do an excellent job of keeping below 15mph on the narrow, mixed-use section south of the station before the formation (the old Trumpington branch which led to Oxford eventually) is reached.

I walk this every day at present, seeing ever-increasing patronage by ALL modes of road users.

It works for Cambridge: just wish the A14 obstruction at Histon would finish.

[Chris Bertram]

The car traps are very effective at deterring non-buses from entering the Busway.

However, when a car does get trapped, the busway is closed until the car is recovered, since the car cannot simply reverse out. Not sure how you get around that if you deem it essential to prevent cars from using it. Maybe transponder-operated bollards might work?

[Mark Hewitt]

The car traps are very effective at deterring non-buses from entering the Busway.

However, when a car does get trapped, the busway is closed until the car is recovered, since the car cannot simply reverse out. Not sure how you get around that if you deem it essential to prevent cars from using it. Maybe transponder-operated bollards might work?

Which if you watch the various videos online seem to just end up severely damaging any car that collides with them. I'm not quite sure what you can do about drivers who think driving down a concrete busway is a good idea. Mandatory retest once they're pulled out I think.

[Chris Bertram]

The car traps are very effective at deterring non-buses from entering the Busway.

However, when a car does get trapped, the busway is closed until the car is recovered, since the car cannot simply reverse out. Not sure how you get around that if you deem it essential to prevent cars from using it. Maybe transponder-operated bollards might work?

Which if you watch the various videos online seem to just end up severely damaging any car that collides with them. I'm not quite sure what you can do about drivers who think driving down a concrete busway is a good idea. Mandatory retest once they're pulled out I think.

The advantage of a bollard is that you could make it highly visible as an obstruction at the very entrance to the busway. The car traps are not so visible and are situated a little way down the track. As I say, perhaps there's no easy answer.

[Mark Hewitt]

The advantage of a bollard is that you could make it highly visible as an obstruction at the very entrance to the busway. The car traps are not so visible and are situated a little way down the track. As I say, perhaps there's no easy answer.

Level crossing type barriers would be the most visible but also the most costly.

[Big L]

The advantage of a bollard is that you could make it highly visible as an obstruction at the very entrance to the busway. The car traps are not so visible and are situated a little way down the track. As I say, perhaps there's no easy answer.

Level crossing type barriers would be the most visible but also the most costly.

You almost never hear of vehicles either not seeing, or deliberately ignoring, level crossing gates. Oh wait...

[medgoode]

Redditch has (non-guided) busways, with "local bus and cycle only" signs guarding their entrances. I can't say whether compliance is good with this, but Google Streetview seems to cover quite a lot of their length. I assume that Google don't have a Streetview bus as part of their surveying fleet.

I believe Google also have bicycle that can record Street View footage. I don't see any shadow from the car and its roof mounted camera in the image, whereas there is shadow from things such as trees, which could support the idea that they have used a bike.