Guided Busways

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KeithW
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by KeithW »

Mark Hewitt wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 08:38
I would imagine the fine is at least £60 if not more? So a very expensive toll road indeed.

Reminds me of the likes of diplomatic staff in London using diplomatic immunity to not bother paying parking fines or the congestion charge, as with them being immune from criminal prosecution they can just get away with it.
It is £60 although a number of motorists successfully appealed against fines levied for using the bus gate at Cambridge Station as if you travelled via Tenison Road instead of Station Road the only sign was an advanced warning of a bus gate ahead 135 m away. Indeed the only sign visible at the station was at a point where had already passed the ANPR camera on the lamp post so even if you turned round before the no entry sign you still triggered the penalty.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.19416 ... authuser=0

The result was that the sign was repositioned.
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by Big L »

Michael Winner:
Winner purchased the car in 2008 to celebrate “getting himself £6 million into debt” and was renowned for driving it in bus lanes to speed up his journey as well as parking it illegally. He described the fines he received as “wonderful value” and once stated:

“The difference is I don’t have to walk around in the rain looking for taxis. I just leave the restaurant and step straight back into my car”.
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roadtester
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by roadtester »

This is quite interesting - a proposed new guided busway route linking the new settlement of Cambourne with Cambridge:

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... ssion=true
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c2R
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by c2R »

roadtester wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 23:20 This is quite interesting - a proposed new guided busway route linking the new settlement of Cambourne with Cambridge:

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... ssion=true

I'm not entirely sure I see the point - it looks like a new off-line route, until it gets to the M11 where it rejoins the city streets. It's not like there's heavy congestion on either the A428 or the old A428 between Cambourne and Cambridge. The problem is getting from the M11 into the city.
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Al__S
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by Al__S »

it's offline till it hits Adams Road, a 7.6m wide (between kerbs) back street in the city that is one of the busiest cycle routes in the city. And then gets to Grange Road at which point the plans become ?????
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by mikehindsonevans »

Given that the current Busway services are crippled by the congestion on the non-segregated sections of roadway, I would vote for segregated running wherever possible.

This looks like a sensible version of the "provide infrastructure first, Then build the houses" logic. Who in their right mind would argue with THAT??

Sits back and waits for squalls...
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Re: Guided Busways

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There's segregated running and the there's segregated running! This plan is essentially for a busway across open countryside in addition to a HQ D2 with parallel S2 LAR.

I've no problem with infrastructure provision, but could the money be better spent? I would suggest so.... I reckon many km of surfaced segregated rural cycleways would be better...
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by mikehindsonevans »

Hmm. Getting drivers out of their cars and onto a HQBW is feasible.

Getting them into bicycles for a multi-mile cruise to work (even across the open fen country around here) - might be in a whole new category of "challenging", to my way of thinking.

If it has a chance of working, then this is the place.
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by darkcape »

c2R wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 20:38 There's segregated running and the there's segregated running! This plan is essentially for a busway across open countryside in addition to a HQ D2 with parallel S2 LAR.

I've no problem with infrastructure provision, but could the money be better spent? I would suggest so.... I reckon many km of surfaced segregated rural cycleways would be better...
The other parts of Cambridge bureau have a good cycleway alongside so I expect this extension also would.
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Re: Guided Busways

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darkcape wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 23:28
c2R wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 20:38 There's segregated running and the there's segregated running! This plan is essentially for a busway across open countryside in addition to a HQ D2 with parallel S2 LAR.

I've no problem with infrastructure provision, but could the money be better spent? I would suggest so.... I reckon many km of surfaced segregated rural cycleways would be better...
The other parts of Cambridge bureau have a good cycleway alongside so I expect this extension also would.
I'm sure it would... but better would be a cycleway alongside a busy road like the A1198 between Huntingdon and Royston.... I'd currently be quite happy to cycle along the empty existing LAR next to the A428, but wouldn't dream of cycling on the A1198 as there's no pavement and a massive amount of traffic. Surely the point must be to look at where the money would be best being spent?
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Berk
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by Berk »

Exactly. If you’re taking about building km’s of new-build, segregated cycleway, fair enough. But resources are limited, and unless we have a Dutch-style cycling revolution overnight, I can see it becoming a white elephant.

I really can see that sort of “investment” being panned in the local media. And it’s not because I wouldn’t want to see it built, but more that it’s a poor choice when transport funding is so limited anyway.

Best to spend it on busways that anyone can use. You won’t see disabled people cycling 30k’s to work from the countryside (although if they have mobility scooters, you never know).
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Re: Guided Busways

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Berk wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 23:49 Exactly. If you’re taking about building km’s of new-build, segregated cycleway, fair enough. But resources are limited, and unless we have a Dutch-style cycling revolution overnight, I can see it becoming a white elephant.

I really can see that sort of “investment” being panned in the local media. And it’s not because I wouldn’t want to see it built, but more that it’s a poor choice when transport funding is so limited anyway.

Best to spend it on busways that anyone can use. You won’t see disabled people cycling 30k’s to work from the countryside (although if they have mobility scooters, you never know).
Given the opportunity cost of spending the money where it would do most good, I can't see how the BCR stacks up for it, that's all. It won't improve journey times (other than for cars on the LAR who won't be stuck behind a bus), as there's presently no congestion where the bus route is planned to go. It won't increase capacity as they're using busses, not light rail. The segregation doesn't extend to the city streets of Cambridge, where there is clearly congestion. Also there are many park and rides around Cambridge, so it's unlikely to attract anyone to shift modes, when they can already drive to a convenient car park, park for free, and then pay for a p&r bus into the city.

It would be far better, if you want to use the money for busses, to invest in making some of the city streets into Cambridge bus only, to create congestion free transport corridors into the centre of the city, thus increasing the appeal of the park and ride to try and remove more cars from the city streets in Cambridge itself.
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by mikehindsonevans »

c2R wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:53
Berk wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 23:49 Exactly. If you’re taking about building km’s of new-build, segregated cycleway, fair enough. But resources are limited, and unless we have a Dutch-style cycling revolution overnight, I can see it becoming a white elephant.

I really can see that sort of “investment” being panned in the local media. And it’s not because I wouldn’t want to see it built, but more that it’s a poor choice when transport funding is so limited anyway.

Best to spend it on busways that anyone can use. You won’t see disabled people cycling 30k’s to work from the countryside (although if they have mobility scooters, you never know).
... there's presently no congestion where the bus route is planned to go.
But there will be when the new housing is built. For example, 3,500 homes on the former Bourn airfield
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by camflyer »

c2R wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:53
Berk wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 23:49 Exactly. If you’re taking about building km’s of new-build, segregated cycleway, fair enough. But resources are limited, and unless we have a Dutch-style cycling revolution overnight, I can see it becoming a white elephant.

I really can see that sort of “investment” being panned in the local media. And it’s not because I wouldn’t want to see it built, but more that it’s a poor choice when transport funding is so limited anyway.

Best to spend it on busways that anyone can use. You won’t see disabled people cycling 30k’s to work from the countryside (although if they have mobility scooters, you never know).
Given the opportunity cost of spending the money where it would do most good, I can't see how the BCR stacks up for it, that's all. It won't improve journey times (other than for cars on the LAR who won't be stuck behind a bus), as there's presently no congestion where the bus route is planned to go. It won't increase capacity as they're using busses, not light rail. The segregation doesn't extend to the city streets of Cambridge, where there is clearly congestion. Also there are many park and rides around Cambridge, so it's unlikely to attract anyone to shift modes, when they can already drive to a convenient car park, park for free, and then pay for a p&r bus into the city.

It would be far better, if you want to use the money for busses, to invest in making some of the city streets into Cambridge bus only, to create congestion free transport corridors into the centre of the city, thus increasing the appeal of the park and ride to try and remove more cars from the city streets in Cambridge itself.
All the Busway seems to do is get you to the city centre congestion quicker. Until there is a genuine dedicated track then it is only going to be part of the solution.

The current (and proposed) networks are also too radial requiring changes in the city centre to from one fringe area to another doubling the length of the journey. The centre of Cambridge isn't designed for easy change of buses as stops are spread over such a wide area.
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by mikehindsonevans »

camflyer wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 14:32
c2R wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:53
Berk wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 23:49 Exactly. If you’re taking about building km’s of new-build, segregated cycleway, fair enough. But resources are limited, and unless we have a Dutch-style cycling revolution overnight, I can see it becoming a white elephant.

I really can see that sort of “investment” being panned in the local media. And it’s not because I wouldn’t want to see it built, but more that it’s a poor choice when transport funding is so limited anyway.

Best to spend it on busways that anyone can use. You won’t see disabled people cycling 30k’s to work from the countryside (although if they have mobility scooters, you never know).
It would be far better, if you want to use the money for busses, to invest in making some of the city streets into Cambridge bus only, to create congestion free transport corridors into the centre of the city, thus increasing the appeal of the park and ride to try and remove more cars from the city streets in Cambridge itself.
All the Busway seems to do is get you to the city centre congestion quicker. Until there is a genuine dedicated track then it is only going to be part of the solution.

The current (and proposed) networks are also too radial requiring changes in the city centre to from one fringe area to another doubling the length of the journey. The centre of Cambridge isn't designed for easy change of buses as stops are spread over such a wide area.
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by B1040 »

c2R wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 23:31
I'm sure it would... but better would be a cycleway alongside a busy road like the A1198 between Huntingdon and Royston.... I'd currently be quite happy to cycle along the empty existing LAR next to the A428, but wouldn't dream of cycling on the A1198 as there's no pavement and a massive amount of traffic. Surely the point must be to look at where the money would be best being spent?
The A10 south of Cambridge has a cycle lane. What's the usage like?
When the Camcycle chap used to annoy motorists with his weekly article on the Cambridge News website, a couple of his critics would whinge about nobody using that cycle lane.
I hardly ever go along there, so have no idea how well used it it.

The bikeway from Longstanton to Cambridge is well-used. The bit from St Ives to Longstanton was flooded last week.
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by c2R »

B1040 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 18:43
c2R wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 23:31
I'm sure it would... but better would be a cycleway alongside a busy road like the A1198 between Huntingdon and Royston.... I'd currently be quite happy to cycle along the empty existing LAR next to the A428, but wouldn't dream of cycling on the A1198 as there's no pavement and a massive amount of traffic. Surely the point must be to look at where the money would be best being spent?
The A10 south of Cambridge has a cycle lane. What's the usage like?
When the Camcycle chap used to annoy motorists with his weekly article on the Cambridge News website, a couple of his critics would whinge about nobody using that cycle lane.
I hardly ever go along there, so have no idea how well used it it.

The bikeway from Longstanton to Cambridge is well-used. The bit from St Ives to Longstanton was flooded last week.
I've not got AADT figures, however, when in GB I drive that way regularly, and do see quite a number of cyclists both during daylight and darkness - I suspect that residents of Harston for example cycle to the station to get the train to London, as well as cyclists travelling the other way.

I've said before, but I'd cycle to my nearest town (probably about 5 miles) at the weekend to go to the shops/pubs if there was a cyclepath. But there isn't, only narrow country lanes with high hedges and nowhere to escape off the carriageway. Therefore, I don't.
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by solocle »

c2R wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 19:22
B1040 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 18:43
c2R wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 23:31
I'm sure it would... but better would be a cycleway alongside a busy road like the A1198 between Huntingdon and Royston.... I'd currently be quite happy to cycle along the empty existing LAR next to the A428, but wouldn't dream of cycling on the A1198 as there's no pavement and a massive amount of traffic. Surely the point must be to look at where the money would be best being spent?
The A10 south of Cambridge has a cycle lane. What's the usage like?
When the Camcycle chap used to annoy motorists with his weekly article on the Cambridge News website, a couple of his critics would whinge about nobody using that cycle lane.
I hardly ever go along there, so have no idea how well used it it.

The bikeway from Longstanton to Cambridge is well-used. The bit from St Ives to Longstanton was flooded last week.
I've not got AADT figures, however, when in GB I drive that way regularly, and do see quite a number of cyclists both during daylight and darkness - I suspect that residents of Harston for example cycle to the station to get the train to London, as well as cyclists travelling the other way.

I've said before, but I'd cycle to my nearest town (probably about 5 miles) at the weekend to go to the shops/pubs if there was a cyclepath. But there isn't, only narrow country lanes with high hedges and nowhere to escape off the carriageway. Therefore, I don't.
Looking at street view, I'd be on the road, not the path, if cycling there! It looks like a footway - narrow, poor side entry treatment (I'd feel safer using the M11/A10 roundabout vehicularly then using those uncontrolled crossings, for example). Once you get inside Cambridge, it might be better, but I'd likely already have written it off had I been approaching Cambridge that way.

As it is, A603 seems more likely for me. https://www.strava.com/activities/2964494102?oq=Ful I was quite quickly back on the carriageway because of the side roads.
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by camflyer »

mikehindsonevans wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 17:50 Tell me about it! Every darn morning at present.
Maybe it would be wise to avoid Cambridge in the morning as Extincion Rebellion are planning on a blockade of Milton Rd and the Businsess and Science Park
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... d-9097159/

If they did stop traffic on Milton Road how could we tell the difference?
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Re: Guided Busways

Post by c2R »

solocle wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 19:39
Looking at street view, I'd be on the road, not the path, if cycling there! It looks like a footway - narrow, poor side entry treatment (I'd feel safer using the M11/A10 roundabout vehicularly then using those uncontrolled crossings, for example). Once you get inside Cambridge, it might be better, but I'd likely already have written it off had I been approaching Cambridge that way.
The new cycleway being referred to is actually further south than that, and is built to modern standards and has better side entry treatment, e.g. here: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1280924 ... 384!8i8192

As for further north, the M11 junction's cycle crossings may be uncontrolled, but the circulatory carriageway is controlled, meaning there's time to cross between phases. I'm simply not as brave/stupid as cyclists that feel they can keep pace with the HGVs on sections of S2 with high AADT or as mad as those that get a buzz out of being traffic calming in human form - therefore you'll find me on that narrow cycle lane as I value being alive. I do agree that it needs widening and priority should be given over side roads, but it's far better than the nothing that is found practically everywhere else in rural areas.
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