Guided Busways

[Britain]

Parts of the Runcorn Busway are still used by Arriva North West serves 1 and 2 on fairly decent headways, but I think some sections were built to link outlying industrial estates and had a much less regular service. Unfortunately I have donated my 1970's era Crosville timetables to a museum so I can't immediately check. It was opened in 1971 as an integral part of the New Town, so building new busways to a width of 22ft was just one part of the overall construction work on a (mostly) virgin site. That still feels a little tight to pass two full-size buses, although I gather there is a 20mph speed limit, if anyone can confirm or correct that?

I oddly never went on it in my bus enthusiast days, but I was once taken to the Shopping City elevated station by my father, probably a couple of years after it opened. Was this the future, we wondered?

I had a friend who worked for the council that owns those busways and I was told they legally they have no speed limit but users of the busway (bus drivers, council workers, etc.) are advised it's 30mph. Apparently the speed limit on the new Runcorn/Mersey Gateway bridge also wasn't enforceable for some time (not sure if it's enforceable now) due to it not having a regulation order put on it if I remember correctly.

[roadtester]

There was some actual proper busway news in Cambridgeshire today.

Cambridge and Peterborough Mayor James Palmer has seized control of the Cambridge/Cambourne busway scheme because the plans being worked up so far didn’t fit in with his autonomous metro project. Details here:

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... r-9099933/

[KeithW]

There was some actual proper busway news in Cambridgeshire today.

Cambridge and Peterborough Mayor James Palmer has seized control of the Cambridge/Cambourne busway scheme because the plans being worked up so far didn’t fit in with his autonomous metro project. Details here:

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... r-9099933/

One wonders how he intends to do this with a budget of £100,000.
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... s-9095903/

[roadtester]

There was some actual proper busway news in Cambridgeshire today.

Cambridge and Peterborough Mayor James Palmer has seized control of the Cambridge/Cambourne busway scheme because the plans being worked up so far didn’t fit in with his autonomous metro project. Details here:

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... r-9099933/

One wonders how he intends to do this with a budget of £100,000.
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... s-9095903/

He talks a good game and it’s quite pleasing to see someone in his position obviously trying to make a bit of an effort to come up with new ideas and get things moving.

On the other hand, so far, concrete results are not much in evidence!

[Al__S]

I am curious as to whether he actually has the official powers to do what he says he's doing, however regardless untangling it will set everything back

[rhyds]

The posts regarding the Extinction Rebellion protests have been moved to the following thread

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40739

[KeithW]

I am curious as to whether he actually has the official powers to do what he says he's doing, however regardless untangling it will set everything back

This is the same man who a few years ago was promising to dual the A10 , funny how that didnt happen.

[B1040]

....and revive the M11 extension to the Humber Bridge

[camflyer]

There was some actual proper busway news in Cambridgeshire today.

Cambridge and Peterborough Mayor James Palmer has seized control of the Cambridge/Cambourne busway scheme because the plans being worked up so far didn’t fit in with his autonomous metro project. Details here:

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... r-9099933/

I can't decide whether this is good news or bad nws... but it's certainly news.

The City Deal/GCP have been useless at delivering anything during the period of their existence. Mind you the Combined Authority aren't much better either.

[B1040]

I suspect no news. The mayor won't build anything either

[KeithW]

I suspect no news. The mayor won't build anything either

I had a look at his web site, all his proposals are marked as submitted and waiting for funding. As far as he is concerned thats job done and time to move on to something else to keep his name in the papers.

He is still banging the drum for an M11 extension, the latest iteration is to extend the M11 to the A47 and dual the full length of it

Nothing less than a revolution in the provision of transport infrastructure across the region is required to ensure these issues are resolved. I made clear during my campaign that part of this revolution includes an extension of the M11 near Cambridge to the Peterborough area in order to join the A47. Such an extension would mean journey times from the north of the Combined Authority area into Cambridge would fall from over an hour to approximately 30 minutes. This would open up the booming Greater Cambridge labour market to those across Cambridgeshire and Peterborough. It would also make the northern parts of Cambridgeshire far more attractive to inward investment. The extension of the M11 to the A47 would likely have a total cost in the billions. However, in my view, if we are bold and imaginative in our thinking, such a price tag need not be prohibitive.

He seems to have lost the plot, a few billion here and a few billion there is apparently not serious money. His latest plan to fund everything is based on a Land Price Cap. The idea is that new law would be passed capping the price of land within given distance (not specified) of a new road. The builders would pay less for the land but could be charged £30,000 per house built which would go into his budget. Of course this cannot be legally done at present so Westminster would have to pass new laws to give him the power.

His plans have now drifted into full blown megalomania. He now wants full devolution with himself as regional supremo

In an interview with the CEN He argued that a light rail metro, with underground tunnelling in Cambridge and extending to surrounding towns and business parks would improve people’s ability to get around the congested area and open up its opportunities to more people. He also called for upgrades to the A10 and A47 and an extension of the M11 to link Chatteris, March and Peterborough. Palmer said that the right infrastructure would also help bring forward the housing growth Cambridgeshire urgently needed.

cite
Pilgrim, Tom (30 April 2017). "Cambridgeshire mayor candidates explain why you should vote for them". cambridgenews. Retrieved 7 September 2018.

So he's not asking much - just dualling the A10 and the A47 to Peterborough, extending the M11 to the A47 east of Peterborough via Chatteris and March and of course a regional Metro system along with the powers to cap land prices and tax all new housing development. He doesn't mention how you fund the new roads in the first place or what happens if landowners decided not to play nice and refuse to sell their land cheap to developers or local authorities refuse to give planning permission - Details mere details.

Interestingly he mentions the Tees Valley Development Corporation as an example but does not mention the major difference that the TVDC requires that local authorities in the area have to independently sign off on any proposal it takes forward to the government for funding.

[roadtester]

Interestingly he mentions the Tees Valley Development Corporation as an example but does not mention the major difference that the TVDC requires that local authorities in the area have to independently sign off on any proposal it takes forward to the government for funding.

Well Teesside-wide planning under Conservative leadership first came in half a century ago.

http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/fil ... g-teesside

Others can judge how successful this has been in bringing prosperity to the area and making it nice.

On the subject of Palmer, while he is a Tory and undoubtedly full of BS, I do give him some credit for coming up with ideas and giving the impression of wanting to get things done, rather than just time-serving and thinking of reasons why everything is all too difficult and we should just give up, which seems to be more normal in local government!

[camflyer]

Hard to see any justification for the extension of the M11 to Peterborough especially after the A14 upgrade is complete. If he wants to do anything with the M11 then he should be calling for the widening to 3 lanes (or maybe 4 in parts) between Stansted and Cambridge. The current 2 lane stretch is some of the worst motorway in the country.

Palmer likes to talk the talk but so far his is poor. I share his frustration about how long it takes to build anything in this country but he doesn't help himself by promising more than he is able to deliver.

[KeithW]

Interestingly he mentions the Tees Valley Development Corporation as an example but does not mention the major difference that the TVDC requires that local authorities in the area have to independently sign off on any proposal it takes forward to the government for funding.

Well Teesside-wide planning under Conservative leadership first came in half a century ago.

http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/fil ... g-teesside

Others can judge how successful this has been in bringing prosperity to the area and making it nice.

Hardly given that Teesside Council was abolished in 1973 under the terms of the Local Government act 1972 , It was replaced by Cleveland County Council which was Labour controlled until 1985 when it was also abolished leaving no coordinated regional planning at all.

Note that the Tees Valley Combined Authority is a quite different entity with a directly elected Mayor and members appointed by the boroughs of Middlesbrough, Darlington, Redcar and Cleveland, Hartlepool and Stockton Tees. In fact we have a mayoral election campaign starting at the moment. Labour wheeled out Keir Starmer this week but I am afraid he misjudged his audience and was badly briefed.

The result was labour fell further behind in the polls. Most of the policies he opposed were a rather popular with local voters. Particularly amusing was his criticism that the Teesside Metro was not going forward completely missing the reality that the services called for are actually being implemented with funding by the TVCA and it is called Teesside Connect. In fact the main bottleneck is getting Network Rail to do their thing and upgrade the stations, the money is already there and the plans have been agreed by the constituent councils. see the following link for details. Some kind soul may let Keir Starmer in on the secret.
https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content ... n-Plan.pdf

[roadtester]

Interestingly he mentions the Tees Valley Development Corporation as an example but does not mention the major difference that the TVDC requires that local authorities in the area have to independently sign off on any proposal it takes forward to the government for funding.

Well Teesside-wide planning under Conservative leadership first came in half a century ago.

http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/fil ... g-teesside

Others can judge how successful this has been in bringing prosperity to the area and making it nice.

Hardly given that Teesside Council was abolished in 1973 under the terms of the Local Government act 1972 , It was replaced by Cleveland County Council which was Labour controlled until 1985 when it was also abolished leaving no coordinated regional planning at all.

Note that the Tees Valley Combined Authority is a quite different entity with a directly elected Mayor and members appointed by the boroughs of Middlesbrough, Darlington, Redcar and Cleveland, Hartlepool and Stockton Tees. In fact we have a mayoral election campaign starting at the moment. Labour wheeled out Keir Starmer this week but I am afraid he misjudged his audience and was badly briefed.

The result was labour fell further behind in the polls. Most of the policies he opposed were a rather popular with local voters. Particularly amusing was his criticism that the Teesside Metro was not going forward completely missing the reality that the services called for are actually being implemented with funding by the TVCA and it is called Teesside Connect. In fact the main bottleneck is getting Network Rail to do their thing and upgrade the stations, the money is already there and the plans have been agreed by the constituent councils. see the following link for details. Some kind soul may let Keir Starmer in on the secret.
https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content ... n-Plan.pdf

Struggling to see the connection to guided busways here.

[KeithW]

Well Teesside-wide planning under Conservative leadership first came in half a century ago.

http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/fil ... g-teesside

Others can judge how successful this has been in bringing prosperity to the area and making it nice.

Hardly given that Teesside Council was abolished in 1973 under the terms of the Local Government act 1972 , It was replaced by Cleveland County Council which was Labour controlled until 1985 when it was also abolished leaving no coordinated regional planning at all.
<abbreviated>

Struggling to see the connection to guided busways here.

Hardly surprising given that none were ever built or mooted, you did initiate the post about Teesside planning in this thread after all so I assumed you knew that. If you wish to move this thread to another topic feel free. In fact I never heard even a whisper of such a thing and I was commuting between Middlesbrough and Billingham at the time. As for the traffic issues following the making of this film the roads were completely updated with the opening of the A174 Parkway , the A19 Tees Flyover and the A66.

Believe me there was nothing like this in 1970
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.56345 ... !1e3?hl=en

My daily journey was from Spencerbeck near Ormesby to Organic House at ICI Billingham. With the opening of the A19 and A174 my drive went from over an hour each way to under 30 minutes.

The Seal Sands development was indeed pursued and that road to nowhere now looks like this.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.61211 ... 6656?hl=en

You can actually see all this very well using the OS Seventh Series layers in Sabre Maps.

[roadtester]

Note that the Tees Valley Combined Authority is a quite different entity with a directly elected Mayor and members appointed by the boroughs of Middlesbrough, Darlington, Redcar and Cleveland, Hartlepool and Stockton Tees. In fact we have a mayoral election campaign starting at the moment.

Well now the mayor has secured more of the SSI steel site at Redcar - let's see what he can do.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... are_btn_tw

I see part of the plan is to build an electric arc furnace.

I don't know much about steel-making but if I remember correctly when Tata wanted to go over to electric arc furnaces in South Wales, there were lots of objections that it would mean the end of "proper" steel-making there because you can only feed these furnaces with scrap, losing full end-to-end steel-making capability. I doubt anyone will be remotely quibbling on that score if some genuine new jobs can be created here though.

[camflyer]

Consultation for the Cambridge Automated Metro has been launched:

https://cam.consultationonline.co.uk/pu ... sultation/

There is no doubt that something needs to be done about public transport in and around Cambridge but I'm yet to be convinced that CAM is the right solution.

[KeithW]

I see part of the plan is to build an electric arc furnace.

I don't know much about steel-making but if I remember correctly when Tata wanted to go over to electric arc furnaces in South Wales, there were lots of objections that it would mean the end of "proper" steel-making there because you can only feed these furnaces with scrap, losing full end-to-end steel-making capability. I doubt anyone will be remotely quibbling on that score if some genuine new jobs can be created here though.

That is basically true but you can also use pig iron or molten iron from a blast furnace. In the case of the SSI site there was only 1 blast furnace and it was several miles from the rolling mills. Something like 85% of steel is recycled so you dont need a blast furnace if there is a good supply of scrap steel and iron. Both the Blast Furnace and old Basic Oxygen Converter where life expired in any case. There is a real risk the Coke Ovens which date back to the 1960's will actually collapse releasing all sorts of nasties.

The South Tees Development Corporation couldn't act while the Thai Banks were the legal owners, in the end they folded and sold the site for £1 as long as they were freed from any ongoing liability.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... 1-17783336

Given that parts of the site have been in use since the 1880's there will be a lot of remediation needed but as the owner for the 50 previous years had been the nationalised British Steel nothing much has changed. The SSI plant was built by British Steel in the early 1970's and the BOC steel maker by Dorman Long who were nationalised in 1967. The only immediately usable facility is the bulk import terminal and there is already a customer for that. The good news is that the Electric Arc Furnace will be able to feed the rolling mills at Lackenby and Skinningrove reducing costs and making them more viable.

The site where the SSI Blast Furnace was built was built on a previous works by Dorman Long in 1917 so its not exactly pristine after 100 years of iron smelting. In fact most of the people who lived there had to be rehoused as the ground was so contaminated. Amongst other things slag had just been dumped on the surface.

[roadtester]

Consultation for the Cambridge Automated Metro has been launched:

https://cam.consultationonline.co.uk/pu ... sultation/

There is no doubt that something needs to be done about public transport in and around Cambridge but I'm yet to be convinced that CAM is the right solution.

Interesting. I've always thought it was a slightly barmy idea but the route map looks very sensible.

It addresses one-side-of-Cambridge-to-the-other journeys, which are a particular problem with the local roads/traffic situation, especially getting down to the Addenbrookes campus.

At the moment, the guided busway doesn't quite work for that because it has to use city streets in central Cambridge, and there isn't proper through running because of differences in clearances between the northern/western and southern bits.

I'm slightly disappointed to see it only reaching Waterbeach rather than Ely to the North when it extends much further out in other directions.