Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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JammyDodge
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by JammyDodge »

A303Chris wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 14:01
Herned wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 22:45
AAndy wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 17:03 Recent Video going up the Gorge: https://youtu.be/yee7fRcoQlA

6 minutes in is a difficult section still to be bridged.
Thanks for sharing. Moved on a lot since the last video I saw. Strange they haven't opened any of the section as two lanes, especially eastbound
Great video, and there does seem to be a lot work to be done at the missing bridge.

After that missing bridge and it is hard to tell, is the westbound carriageway a lot lower than the eastbound carriageway, or hasn't it been built yet.

I also notice at the started that the "Average Speed Camera" signs are large permanent ones, and there are a lot of yellow poles are missing cameras. Are they going to SPEC enforce the new road, can sort of see why, it does seem tight in places.

Also when is it due to be completed, I thought it was meant to be done by now.
The westbound carriageway is the older route I believe. The eastbound carriageway is the newer one, which is at points higher up the gorge
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by jeremai »

The missing bridge is being installed. They posted pictures on Twitter yesterday:

https://twitter.com/A465_Section2/statu ... 95360?s=19

This is the last major piece of engineering four this section.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by AAndy »

jeremai wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 21:36 The missing bridge is being installed. They posted pictures on Twitter yesterday:

https://twitter.com/A465_Section2/statu ... 95360?s=19

This is the last major piece of engineering four this section.
A video this week: The new span is at around 2 mins/10secs in, which seems like it will be concreted in-situ. https://youtu.be/vavyzFfJpV0 . (also front facing, 3mins/10sec in https://youtu.be/yDR5ohwZdMg )

Chris, yes they are going to spec the whole section at 50mph...currently it is spec'd for the last couple of miles ending over the gilwern gsj. No end date in sight atm which is troublesome as they are not starting the next section, Dowlais top to Hirwaun, it seems until this one is completed.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by jeremai »

Thanks Andy; great videos as usual. It's so strange seeing the route bypass the Brynmawr roundabout now. I need to get up there to take some new photos once this lockdown is eased.

Should be complete by September according to Twitter:

https://twitter.com/A465_Section2/statu ... 91841?s=20
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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AAndy wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 08:06
jeremai wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 21:36 The missing bridge is being installed. They posted pictures on Twitter yesterday:

https://twitter.com/A465_Section2/statu ... 95360?s=19

This is the last major piece of engineering four this section.
A video this week: The new span is at around 2 mins/10secs in, which seems like it will be concreted in-situ. https://youtu.be/vavyzFfJpV0 . (also front facing, 3mins/10sec in https://youtu.be/yDR5ohwZdMg )

Chris, yes they are going to spec the whole section at 50mph...currently it is spec'd for the last couple of miles ending over the gilwern gsj. No end date in sight atm which is troublesome as they are not starting the next section, Dowlais top to Hirwaun, it seems until this one is completed.
Dowlais to Hirwaun has already started and is contracted to a different team, so it shouldn't be related.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by Mary_Contrary »

Are they actually placing bus stops? :shock: Appears a little strange for a high speed trunk road.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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Mary_Contrary wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 09:43 Are they actually placing bus stops? :shock: Appears a little strange for a high speed trunk road.
It's not really high speed due to the SPECS 50. Yes, it's grade separated from Dowlais to Hardwick but a 50mph road is at least safer for buses then NSL. I can imagine they'll be very slow off the mark on the inclines, though...
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by Stevie D »

Mary_Contrary wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 09:43 Are they actually placing bus stops? :shock: Appears a little strange for a high speed trunk road.
The X4 runs an hourly service between Cardiff, Merthry Tydfil and Abergavenny. It is non-stop along the A465 between Dowlais and Tredegar, because there isn't really anything to access along the way except Bute Town and Waundeg, which regular stopping services to them – but between Brynmawr and Gilwern there is only a very limited service along the local roads through the villages, so allowing people to access bus stops on the main road, with footbridges so they aren't having to cross the road, seems like a good solution.

It certainly isn't unheard of ... Coastliner buses between York and Leeds have 7 stops along the 70mph dual-carriageway sections of the A64.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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AAndy wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 08:06
jeremai wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 21:36 The missing bridge is being installed. They posted pictures on Twitter yesterday:

https://twitter.com/A465_Section2/statu ... 95360?s=19

This is the last major piece of engineering four this section.
A video this week: The new span is at around 2 mins/10secs in, which seems like it will be concreted in-situ. https://youtu.be/vavyzFfJpV0 . (also front facing, 3mins/10sec in https://youtu.be/yDR5ohwZdMg )

Chris, yes they are going to spec the whole section at 50mph...currently it is spec'd for the last couple of miles ending over the gilwern gsj. No end date in sight atm which is troublesome as they are not starting the next section, Dowlais top to Hirwaun, it seems until this one is completed.
Thanks for that - looks really good. I visit a friend in Carmarthen about once or twice a year, and I usually do at least one leg of the trip via the Heads of the Valleys to check out the progress. Really looking forward to seeing it for real as the lockdown eases. The dualling project really is pretty spectacular.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by Gareth Thomas »

Stevie D wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:33
Mary_Contrary wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 09:43 Are they actually placing bus stops? :shock: Appears a little strange for a high speed trunk road.
The X4 runs an hourly service between Cardiff, Merthry Tydfil and Abergavenny. It is non-stop along the A465 between Dowlais and Tredegar, because there isn't really anything to access along the way except Bute Town and Waundeg, which regular stopping services to them – but between Brynmawr and Gilwern there is only a very limited service along the local roads through the villages, so allowing people to access bus stops on the main road, with footbridges so they aren't having to cross the road, seems like a good solution.

It certainly isn't unheard of ... Coastliner buses between York and Leeds have 7 stops along the 70mph dual-carriageway sections of the A64.
And we have plenty of bus stops along the D2 A2 between Canterbury and Lydden here in Kent.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by DB617 »

Thinking about it, there must be hundreds or thousands of examples country-wide of *S2* roads that are 50 or NSL 60, with poor sight lines and less likelihood of being able to dodge a slow moving, emerging bus. There are crazier things than a bus stop on a 50mph D2.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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The bus stops aren't the reason for the 50, the alignment through a narrow gorge with reduced forward sightlines is the driver behind it; the concrete wall dividing the carriageways for one doesn't let you see that far ahead.

It was 50 before, so anyone complaining that the road is somehow ruined needs a reality check.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 15:00 The bus stops aren't the reason for the 50, the alignment through a narrow gorge with reduced forward sightlines is the driver behind it; the concrete wall dividing the carriageways for one doesn't let you see that far ahead.

It was 50 before, so anyone complaining that the road is somehow ruined needs a reality check.
I think people see "grade separated dual carriageway" and expect "high quality NSL route" which are two different things entirely, as we here know. It doesn't help that the road is a continuation of a really nice high speed network of roads running through sometimes challenging terrain between Strensham, Newport and Abergavenny on one side and Dowlais to Brynmawr on the other; a lot of drivers can't seem to accept that speed limits change for a reason and a few minutes doing 20% lower speed won't kill you. The reality of this section of the HoVR is that it's only dual for capacity and safety reasons and provides much improved overtaking opportunities on a very steep gradient, in absolute nightmare terrain. But the average driver will never know that.

There is also maybe an argument to be had that the reason a lot of people will be angry is because it's not only 50 but SPECS enforced, meaning that they can't do 80-100 like they probably will have been since Dowlais/Strensham/Newport. That is definitely a source of frustration on the existing SPECS sections on the M4 and A470...

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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by SteveA30 »

It won't be a problem on the uphill side, as most lorries will be down to 40 or less. Downhill, I doubt if the outside lane will see much usage, as everything will be at 50. Perhaps to increase capacity but, it will just be 2 lanes of traffic at exactly the same speed, until the Specs ends.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by ForestChav »

DB617 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 18:27
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 15:00 The bus stops aren't the reason for the 50, the alignment through a narrow gorge with reduced forward sightlines is the driver behind it; the concrete wall dividing the carriageways for one doesn't let you see that far ahead.

It was 50 before, so anyone complaining that the road is somehow ruined needs a reality check.
I think people see "grade separated dual carriageway" and expect "high quality NSL route" which are two different things entirely, as we here know. It doesn't help that the road is a continuation of a really nice high speed network of roads running through sometimes challenging terrain between Strensham, Newport and Abergavenny on one side and Dowlais to Brynmawr on the other; a lot of drivers can't seem to accept that speed limits change for a reason and a few minutes doing 20% lower speed won't kill you. The reality of this section of the HoVR is that it's only dual for capacity and safety reasons and provides much improved overtaking opportunities on a very steep gradient, in absolute nightmare terrain. But the average driver will never know that.

There is also maybe an argument to be had that the reason a lot of people will be angry is because it's not only 50 but SPECS enforced, meaning that they can't do 80-100 like they probably will have been since Dowlais/Strensham/Newport. That is definitely a source of frustration on the existing SPECS sections on the M4 and A470...

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SPECS enforcement is the best way of enforcing a limit though, it allows people to drive at the speed limit without getting someone zonking up to a camera and then causing a brake wave by slowing down, the A14 between Huntingdon and Cambridge used to be really bad for that.

As for the A465 I really doubt people would be flattening their way down at 80 from Strensham. The M50 isn't that bad, but is quite busy with traffic from the Midlands into Wales and there's the islands around Ross as well as J2 and 3 which are quite tight. It's also only 2 lanes. Most of this traffic then stays on the A40 which has potential to be busy after you've gone through Symonds Yat area (which presumably gets a lot of traffic itself) into Monmouth where there's the traffic lights by the posh school... Past there the A40 and A449 aren't too bad but then you have a junction which looks like it could get a bit busy at Abergavenny too, then you're almost at this section. Further on you have the decent section coming off the M4 but again that's the easy bit because then you have bits of S2 which they haven't dualled yet.

I don't think people will miss being able to do 70 on this bit, when they would only be able to do 60 before it was dualled, assuming the old road was NSL
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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ForestChav wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 22:03
SPECS enforcement is the best way of enforcing a limit though, it allows people to drive at the speed limit without getting someone zonking up to a camera and then causing a brake wave by slowing down, the A14 between Huntingdon and Cambridge used to be really bad for that.

As for the A465 I really doubt people would be flattening their way down at 80 from Strensham. The M50 isn't that bad, but is quite busy with traffic from the Midlands into Wales and there's the islands around Ross as well as J2 and 3 which are quite tight. It's also only 2 lanes. Most of this traffic then stays on the A40 which has potential to be busy after you've gone through Symonds Yat area (which presumably gets a lot of traffic itself) into Monmouth where there's the traffic lights by the posh school... Past there the A40 and A449 aren't too bad but then you have a junction which looks like it could get a bit busy at Abergavenny too, then you're almost at this section. Further on you have the decent section coming off the M4 but again that's the easy bit because then you have bits of S2 which they haven't dualled yet.

I don't think people will miss being able to do 70 on this bit, when they would only be able to do 60 before it was dualled, assuming the old road was NSL
Have you driven those roads much, out of interest? I have a reasonable amount of mileage in that area from my SSE days and can tell you that the M50 is one of those bits of road people go for speed records on, and the A40 south of Pencraig to Monmouth and onwards to Raglan also has a lot of drivers trying to, shall we say, make spirited progress. In fact, it's one of my least favourite experiences on the SRN having to stop in the traffic for Monmouth halfway down the Welsh Border hill and wondering if I'm about to receive a Range Rover to my rear end at ludicrous speed. The concrete section of A40 from Raglan to Hardwick is a near ghost road and arrow straight to boot, an absolute dream for speed demons, and the congestion only really picks up between Abergavenny and Brynmawr. The rest is really quite tranquil at times and overtaking opportunities are two a penny for the faster driver.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 15:00 The bus stops aren't the reason for the 50, the alignment through a narrow gorge with reduced forward sightlines is the driver behind it; the concrete wall dividing the carriageways for one doesn't let you see that far ahead.

It was 50 before, so anyone complaining that the road is somehow ruined needs a reality check.
People can be much more forgiving of low limits on a 1950s/60s 3-lane road that was barely adequate when it was new, its a different proposition when a low limit and bus stops are designed in from the start of an expensive and substantial rebuild.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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DB617 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 01:58
ForestChav wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 22:03
SPECS enforcement is the best way of enforcing a limit though, it allows people to drive at the speed limit without getting someone zonking up to a camera and then causing a brake wave by slowing down, the A14 between Huntingdon and Cambridge used to be really bad for that.

As for the A465 I really doubt people would be flattening their way down at 80 from Strensham. The M50 isn't that bad, but is quite busy with traffic from the Midlands into Wales and there's the islands around Ross as well as J2 and 3 which are quite tight. It's also only 2 lanes. Most of this traffic then stays on the A40 which has potential to be busy after you've gone through Symonds Yat area (which presumably gets a lot of traffic itself) into Monmouth where there's the traffic lights by the posh school... Past there the A40 and A449 aren't too bad but then you have a junction which looks like it could get a bit busy at Abergavenny too, then you're almost at this section. Further on you have the decent section coming off the M4 but again that's the easy bit because then you have bits of S2 which they haven't dualled yet.

I don't think people will miss being able to do 70 on this bit, when they would only be able to do 60 before it was dualled, assuming the old road was NSL
Have you driven those roads much, out of interest? I have a reasonable amount of mileage in that area from my SSE days and can tell you that the M50 is one of those bits of road people go for speed records on, and the A40 south of Pencraig to Monmouth and onwards to Raglan also has a lot of drivers trying to, shall we say, make spirited progress. In fact, it's one of my least favourite experiences on the SRN having to stop in the traffic for Monmouth halfway down the Welsh Border hill and wondering if I'm about to receive a Range Rover to my rear end at ludicrous speed. The concrete section of A40 from Raglan to Hardwick is a near ghost road and arrow straight to boot, an absolute dream for speed demons, and the congestion only really picks up between Abergavenny and Brynmawr. The rest is really quite tranquil at times and overtaking opportunities are two a penny for the faster driver.
I second this experience. The current dualled sections of the A465 from Merthyr heading East are easily 80mph average speed heading past Ebbw Vale, and folks will expect to be able to do more than 50mph on a brand new, near half a billion quid section of D2.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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rhyds wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 09:37
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 15:00 The bus stops aren't the reason for the 50, the alignment through a narrow gorge with reduced forward sightlines is the driver behind it; the concrete wall dividing the carriageways for one doesn't let you see that far ahead.

It was 50 before, so anyone complaining that the road is somehow ruined needs a reality check.
People can be much more forgiving of low limits on a 1950s/60s 3-lane road that was barely adequate when it was new, its a different proposition when a low limit and bus stops are designed in from the start of an expensive and substantial rebuild.
I was really impressed with the offline bus stops on the NI A1 upgrade plans that were incorporated into the new GSJs (see discussion in the relevant thread) - it would be nice if something similar could have been attempted here, but I don't like to be too much of a moaner about it, given that this is still a really fantastic scheme overall.
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Re: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by rhyds »

The problem is that while the new scheme is a lot better than the old road, its still rather annoying that the standards it is built to require 50MPH SPECS to be applied to a brand new D2.

Its the same kind of engineering reasoning that gives you the 60 limit on the new A556 section. Yes its better than going through Mere and Bucklow Hill, but its a very strange sensation to find yourself on a brand new stretch of GSJ D2 with a posted 60 limit.
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