Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

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IAN
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by IAN »

jeremai wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 17:56 The problem with my last photo is it's portrait oriented so you'd only see a tiny bit of it on the banner.
You could crop it as in my example and it still looks great!
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by Big L »

PotM rules don’t seem to disallow portrait orientation.
Make poetry history.

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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by jeremai »

I just don't think it will work well for the narrow banner at top right (on the desktop site). Still, you're right, it doesn't look too bad cropped so I've gone ahead and submitted it. Thanks for all the comments.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by AAndy »

The opening seems to have been announced?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59796648
A stretch of a major road in south Wales has opened - three years late and more than £110m over budget.

The section of the A465 from Brynmawr, Blaenau Gwent, to Gilwern, Monmouthshire, should have opened in 2018, but has been beset with problems.

The road as a whole has seen works for 20 years along different sections.

The Welsh government acknowledged the project had caused "difficulties" for people, but said the scheme would help deliver on long-term commitments.

The initial budget was £223m but has skyrocketed to £336m, partly due to a legal dispute between the Welsh government and contractors Costain, although the true cost of the project is said to be commercially sensitive.

Welsh gov spent £45m on road project compensation
Drivers frustrated at new £336m road's 50mph plan

Many hope the road can bring positives, despite the cost.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by DB617 »

Found an excuse to travel the section, finally, downhill on a trip to Abergavenny from Barry. I really like it. Fits in nicely with the rest of the road, engineering is incredible, views are equally brilliant, and I don't think I'd be very comfortable if it was NSL and/or non SPECS enforced. That said, it is pretty challenging to keep to 50 or below without leaning on the brake quite hard and I think I switched between gears four, five and six about ten times on the way down with the speed limiter telling me off intermittently. I can't imagine it's easy for drivers with less digital cars and shorter attention spans. :lol:
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by ajuk »

It seems bizarre to go all that trouble to upgrade the road to a higher standard then to reduce the speed limit to 50 and they've had to enforce it with SPECs because it's not "self-enforcing".
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by jnty »

ajuk wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:48 It seems bizarre to go all that trouble to upgrade the road to a higher standard then to reduce the speed limit to 50 and they've had to enforce it with SPECs because it's not "self-enforcing".
It sounds like a road where going over 50mph is unsafe but it's not "natural" to drivers to stay at that speed, perhaps largely due to the gradients. Enforcement seems like a sensible option to keep people awake and in control of their speed.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by Hdeng16 »

DB617 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 20:23 Found an excuse to travel the section, finally, downhill on a trip to Abergavenny from Barry. I really like it. Fits in nicely with the rest of the road, engineering is incredible, views are equally brilliant, and I don't think I'd be very comfortable if it was NSL and/or non SPECS enforced. That said, it is pretty challenging to keep to 50 or below without leaning on the brake quite hard and I think I switched between gears four, five and six about ten times on the way down with the speed limiter telling me off intermittently. I can't imagine it's easy for drivers with less digital cars and shorter attention spans. :lol:
Yeah it’s quite tricky in an auto as well without sport mode and forcing it into 3rd. It’s too steep for cruise control too.

I personally think 60mph would have been a better option… it does seem slow.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by DB617 »

Hdeng16 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 22:55
DB617 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 20:23 Found an excuse to travel the section, finally, downhill on a trip to Abergavenny from Barry. I really like it. Fits in nicely with the rest of the road, engineering is incredible, views are equally brilliant, and I don't think I'd be very comfortable if it was NSL and/or non SPECS enforced. That said, it is pretty challenging to keep to 50 or below without leaning on the brake quite hard and I think I switched between gears four, five and six about ten times on the way down with the speed limiter telling me off intermittently. I can't imagine it's easy for drivers with less digital cars and shorter attention spans. :lol:
Yeah it’s quite tricky in an auto as well without sport mode and forcing it into 3rd. It’s too steep for cruise control too.

I personally think 60mph would have been a better option… it does seem slow.
That's where you want something like a TipTronic box that always allows you to select any lower gear. Auto boxes that only have 123 really irritate me. Because nobody ever needs to engine brake at 50, right?
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by ajuk »

jnty wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 13:04
ajuk wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:48 It seems bizarre to go all that trouble to upgrade the road to a higher standard then to reduce the speed limit to 50 and they've had to enforce it with SPECs because it's not "self-enforcing".
It sounds like a road where going over 50mph is unsafe but it's not "natural" to drivers to stay at that speed, perhaps largely due to the gradients. Enforcement seems like a sensible option to keep people awake and in control of their speed.
If that's the case then the road design is wrong. It was 60 when it was a single carriageway.
I'm reminded of this except in this case they haven't increased the road standard and kept the limit the same, they increased the road standard and lowered it. 🤦‍♂️
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by Chris5156 »

ajuk wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 02:48
jnty wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 13:04
ajuk wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:48 It seems bizarre to go all that trouble to upgrade the road to a higher standard then to reduce the speed limit to 50 and they've had to enforce it with SPECs because it's not "self-enforcing".
It sounds like a road where going over 50mph is unsafe but it's not "natural" to drivers to stay at that speed, perhaps largely due to the gradients. Enforcement seems like a sensible option to keep people awake and in control of their speed.
If that's the case then the road design is wrong. It was 60 when it was a single carriageway.
I'm reminded of this except in this case they haven't increased the road standard and kept the limit the same, they increased the road standard and lowered it.
No, it was 50. More lanes have been provided but the basic facts about the horizontal and vertical alignment of the road, which is in extremely challenging terrain, haven't changed.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by AAndy »

Chris5156 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 09:17
ajuk wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 02:48
jnty wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 13:04

It sounds like a road where going over 50mph is unsafe but it's not "natural" to drivers to stay at that speed, perhaps largely due to the gradients. Enforcement seems like a sensible option to keep people awake and in control of their speed.
If that's the case then the road design is wrong. It was 60 when it was a single carriageway.
I'm reminded of this except in this case they haven't increased the road standard and kept the limit the same, they increased the road standard and lowered it.
No, it was 50. More lanes have been provided but the basic facts about the horizontal and vertical alignment of the road, which is in extremely challenging terrain, haven't changed.
It was NSL 60mph up until around the time of the Abergavenny to Gilwern section of the Dualling commenced, even over the twistier section of 2+1 from the little chef to the turn to clydach.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by KeithW »

DB617 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 23:05 That's where you want something like a TipTronic box that always allows you to select any lower gear. Auto boxes that only have 123 really irritate me. Because nobody ever needs to engine brake at 50, right?
Engine braking with some old fashioned autoboxes does not work well, as I recall selecting 2 on many Borg Warner boxes in the 70's would prevent the box shifting up into 3 but would not necessarily down shift when descending a hill. People used to do this back then because a lot of cars still had drum brakes and long descent was a much bigger problem than it is with disc brakes. Even with my little Hillman Imp I would put it into a low grear descending a steep hill as you could burn out the brakes. This is why on the North Yorks Moors you would see signs erected by United Buses that instructed bus drivers to engage low gear. at the top. Many of these were erected after the 1925 Dibbles Bridge Coach Crash.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dibbles_B ... ash_(1925)

There were similar crashes at the time on Mill Bank Loftus.

They were later replaced by official signs such as those on on Sutton Bank.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.23995 ... 8192?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.23695 ... 8192?hl=en

There were also such signs on Saltburn Bank but they seem to have been removed.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by A303Chris »

Was at Abergavenny for the weekend and took the chance to drive the A465 form Abergavenny to Merthyr Tydfil and back for the first time. What a stunning piece of road and I did not realise how high the road got!

However, I had watched the you tube video of the Gilwern to Brynmawr section and saw it was 50mph, but I would have thought following the upgrade it could be 60mph. Going up I was overtaking slow lorries, but coming down everyone was in lane one. Seemed a waste of an improvement.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by IAN »

A303Chris wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 14:04 However, I had watched the you tube video of the Gilwern to Brynmawr section and saw it was 50mph, but I would have thought following the upgrade it could be 60mph. Going up I was overtaking slow lorries, but coming down everyone was in lane one. Seemed a waste of an improvement.
You may have to get used to it! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-605 ... %20cameras.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by DB617 »

IAN wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 14:45
A303Chris wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 14:04 However, I had watched the you tube video of the Gilwern to Brynmawr section and saw it was 50mph, but I would have thought following the upgrade it could be 60mph. Going up I was overtaking slow lorries, but coming down everyone was in lane one. Seemed a waste of an improvement.
You may have to get used to it! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-605 ... %20cameras.
As far as we know the section has an 85kph minimum design speed - reduced emissions are a bonus. Unfortunately the emissions limits have a side effect of worsening driver perception of genuinely required safety limits.

The widespread proliferation of SPECS in the country is quickly showing how difficult and frustrating some people find speed limit compliance on dual carriageways.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by Alderpoint »

DB617 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 19:01
As far as we know the section has an 85kph minimum design speed - reduced emissions are a bonus. Unfortunately the emissions limits have a side effect of worsening driver perception of genuinely required safety limits.
As West to East is all downhill, then any reduced emissions are minimal if not imaginary. I've not travelled that way since it's been fully open, but it would be interesting to see if it is possible to coast the whole way down in neutral - indeed many modern engines will cut fuel to almost zero if there is no loading.

PS Do you mean
85kph minimum design speed
If so can you explain please....
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by hoagy_ytfc »

As West to East is all downhill, then any reduced emissions are minimal if not imaginary. I've not travelled that way since it's been fully open, but it would be interesting to see if it is possible to coast the whole way down in neutral - indeed many modern engines will cut fuel to almost zero if there is no loading.
Depends how steep, but neutral requires fuel to keep the engine idling, while coasting in gear will usually use none. So if it’s steep enough to keep speed, do it in gear.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by Alderpoint »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 20:02
As West to East is all downhill, then any reduced emissions are minimal if not imaginary. I've not travelled that way since it's been fully open, but it would be interesting to see if it is possible to coast the whole way down in neutral - indeed many modern engines will cut fuel to almost zero if there is no loading.
Depends how steep, but neutral requires fuel to keep the engine idling, while coasting in gear will usually use none. So if it’s steep enough to keep speed, do it in gear.
Agreed, but I think the difference is miniscule. Having decended many long (30 mile+) descents in the Alps, the amount of fuel used in either case is pretty much negligable - certainly the pollution difference between coasting in neutral or in gear has got to be tiny.
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Re: Completed Dec. 2021: A465 Heads Of The Valleys Rd Dualling: Gilwern To Brynmawr

Post by DB617 »

Alderpoint wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 19:53
DB617 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 19:01
As far as we know the section has an 85kph minimum design speed - reduced emissions are a bonus. Unfortunately the emissions limits have a side effect of worsening driver perception of genuinely required safety limits.
As West to East is all downhill, then any reduced emissions are minimal if not imaginary. I've not travelled that way since it's been fully open, but it would be interesting to see if it is possible to coast the whole way down in neutral - indeed many modern engines will cut fuel to almost zero if there is no loading.

PS Do you mean
85kph minimum design speed
If so can you explain please....
I wouldn't advise coasting it. You're descending somewhere in the region of 300m and that's not a kind thing to do to any brake set.

I realise that could be confusing. I meant that the design speed of the scheme drops as low as 85kph in places. Ie the design speed is at MINIMUM 85kph.
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