M25 Junction 5 - 6 Smart Motorway

[RichardA35]

I came along the southern M25 ACW this morning and there is a temporary lane closure of lane 4 between Junction 6 and 5 with the remaining lines temporarily remarked. Quite a significant TM scheme for what is noted on the HE website as "repair works" lasting until the end of May.
I am inclined to believe what a former colleague told me just before Christmas that he was starting a scheme at that location early this year for the construction of additional emergency refuges.

[Bryn666]

I came along the southern M25 ACW this morning and there is a temporary lane closure of lane 4 between Junction 6 and 5 with the remaining lines temporarily remarked. Quite a significant TM scheme for what is noted on the HE website as "repair works" lasting until the end of May.
I am inclined to believe what a former colleague told me just before Christmas that he was starting a scheme at that location early this year for the construction of additional emergency refuges.

Don't tell me that the 2km distance is insufficient? Who didn't see THAT one coming?

[Alderpoint]

Don't tell me that the 2km distance is insufficient? Who didn't see THAT one coming?

It was announced almost a year ago.

[Bryn666]

Yes and no one was shocked then either. Penny pinching chicken comes home to roost again.

[WHBM]

6 months to build a layby …

What a Smart road.

Notably that section is plagued with European HGVs heading for the Channel ports taking their tacho breaks in them.

[Jeni]

6 months to build a layby …

What a Smart road.

Were you expecting the layby to build itself?

[Brenley Corner]

I may be missing a trick here and be slow on the uptake, but how can they be building extra refuges with a "temporary lane closure of lane 4 between Junction 6 and 5 with the remaining lines temporarily remarked"?

Tony

[RichardA35]

I may be missing a trick here and be slow on the uptake, but how can they be building extra refuges with a "temporary lane closure of lane 4 between Junction 6 and 5 with the remaining lines temporarily remarked"?

Tony

Sorry a bit of shorthand - Lane 4 is closed initially with a standard taper then the 3 remaining lanes are switched to be tight to the central reserve generating the working space in the verge.
HTH

[A303Chris]

Oh great another 50 mph roadwork section between home (M4, J10) and the Channel Tunnel

[WHBM]

Came through this yesterday homeward bound. The section must be about 4 to 5 miles long, it is reduced to 3 narrow lanes eastbound with the nearside coned off. There were work barriers round at least two work sites in this, the rest is just coned off. The existing ERAs have some decidedly improvised access in/out, with virtually no taper, would be a real challenge to get out again especially in the dark, more so than normal ERAs where at least you are parallel to the traffic and wing mirrors give a better view. Traffic in the pm peak actually flowed pretty well, but it was a bit of a challenge with a French HGV in lane 2 - all credit to the driver who was doing it notably accurately at 40/50 but it only just fitted in the lane, and people were hesitant to pass either side.

There's a 50 limit but the VSL showed 40 at the start, with a formal 50 sign about 100 yards beyond. I wonder what the legal position of all that is. The VMS were blank thereafter.

[jervi]

The existing ERAs have some decidedly improvised access in/out, with virtually no taper, would be a real challenge to get out again especially in the dark, more so than normal ERAs where at least you are parallel to the traffic and wing mirrors give a better view.

Well drivers are meant to call HE when they want to leave the ERA so they can close L1 and the driver can leave the ERA safely. Of course there will always be one who will drive on a closed lane that you will still have to look out for.

[Bryn666]

The existing ERAs have some decidedly improvised access in/out, with virtually no taper, would be a real challenge to get out again especially in the dark, more so than normal ERAs where at least you are parallel to the traffic and wing mirrors give a better view.

Well drivers are meant to call HE when they want to leave the ERA so they can close L1 and the driver can leave the ERA safely. Of course there will always be one who will drive on a closed lane that you will still have to look out for.

This 'call for exit' system also immediately identifies misuse of the ERA, which means that anyone wanting to avoid a fine will just pull out into live traffic.

Again though, how many old style lay-bys exist on A-roads and have people regularly pull out into live traffic from a standing start? Hint - I had a HGV do this to me on the A500 just on Wednesday. Why do relatively simple concepts on a motorway cause such panic when it happens off the blue line network every single day?

[jervi]

Well drivers are meant to call HE when they want to leave the ERA so they can close L1 and the driver can leave the ERA safely. Of course there will always be one who will drive on a closed lane that you will still have to look out for.

This 'call for exit' system also immediately identifies misuse of the ERA, which means that anyone wanting to avoid a fine will just pull out into live traffic.

Again though, how many old style lay-bys exist on A-roads and have people regularly pull out into live traffic from a standing start? Hint - I had a HGV do this to me on the A500 just on Wednesday. Why do relatively simple concepts on a motorway cause such panic when it happens off the blue line network every single day?

Personally I think HE should sell a contract out for enforcement of ERA missuages. It's easy to identify when someone has stopped in one (most, if not all have loops and all have CCTV coverage).
Video footage of the vehicle in the ERA is sent off to the enforcement contract, and if there is no legal reason for the stop identified (changing tyre, breakdown company called out, women giving birth, been a small bump etc) then the vehicle owner is given a phonecall/email/letter asking to state the reason for the stop, and fine them appropriately if they have misused the ERA. However if they phoned HE to be let out of the ERA, their fine is reduced. And finally run another media campaign to let everyone know about the missuages of ERAs.

[c2R]

Again though, how many old style lay-bys exist on A-roads and have people regularly pull out into live traffic from a standing start? Hint - I had a HGV do this to me on the A500 just on Wednesday. Why do relatively simple concepts on a motorway cause such panic when it happens off the blue line network every single day?

I'd argue for the improvement of old style lay-bys on the trunk network too - those long ones on the A500 heading down the hill to the M6 northern junction are an accident waiting to happen. If we allowed standards of car safety to be reduced to one which was in place 40 years ago,because it was (for example) ok not to have seat belts in the back, and that sometimes accidents happened but you just got on with it, there would quite rightly be an outcry....

[Bryn666]

Again though, how many old style lay-bys exist on A-roads and have people regularly pull out into live traffic from a standing start? Hint - I had a HGV do this to me on the A500 just on Wednesday. Why do relatively simple concepts on a motorway cause such panic when it happens off the blue line network every single day?

I'd argue for the improvement of old style lay-bys on the trunk network too - those long ones on the A500 heading down the hill to the M6 northern junction are an accident waiting to happen. If we allowed standards of car safety to be reduced to one which was in place 40 years ago,because it was (for example) ok not to have seat belts in the back, and that sometimes accidents happened but you just got on with it, there would quite rightly be an outcry....

Agreed - but it shows that people demanding blood and heads to roll are overstating their case somewhat. They don't complain about the A1/A500/A90 etc.

[orudge]

Agreed - but it shows that people demanding blood and heads to roll are overstating their case somewhat. They don't complain about the A1/A500/A90 etc.

To be fair, there are often complaints about other safety aspects on these roads, but the lack of a hard shoulder isn't generally one of them. Curiously enough it's a subject that has come up a fair bit in the past regarding the A55 in North Wales, but I don't recall hearing demands for hard shoulders on any other A-roads.

The A90 between Dundee and Aberdeen at least is pretty well-provisioned with lay-bys, and they're a good length too - pulling back out isn't a problem. The M90's "infamous" emergency lay-bys look similar, albeit narrower perhaps. The ERAs I've seen (primarily on Street View) look considerably smaller.

[WHBM]

Well drivers are meant to call HE when they want to leave the ERA so they can close L1 and the driver can leave the ERA safely

And what a dislocation that will cause, just because mum pulled over because the child in the back was throwing up. And how in the dark do you see the notice showing the phone number to call when it is mounted on a sign above vision height from the driving seat of a saloon, at right angles to the traffic and with lighting now removed from ALR sections.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6896837 ... 312!8i6656

[Big L]

And what a dislocation that will cause, just because mum pulled over because the child in the back was throwing up. And how in the dark do you see the notice showing the phone number to call when it is mounted on a sign above vision height from the driving seat of a saloon, at right angles to the traffic and with lighting now removed from ALR sections.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6896837 ... 312!8i6656

In that specific circumstance I’m assuming mum stopped in the refuge in order to get out of the car to help the throwing up child. Once out, and help is done, I’m guessing seeing the sign and its phone number should be reasonably easy.

[Bryn666]

You don't need to know a phone number because the ERA has this amazing thing called a telephone that will connect you directly to the relevant people.

Yet again the hysteria about smart motorways overlooks the genuine operational problems in favour of fabricated ones like it being so dark in the UK that you won't be able to see more than two centimetres in front of you.

[brummie_rob]

You don't need to know a phone number because the ERA has this amazing thing called a telephone that will connect you directly to the relevant people.

Yet again the hysteria about smart motorways overlooks the genuine operational problems in favour of fabricated ones like it being so dark in the UK that you won't be able to see more than two centimetres in front of you.

I regularly drive the unlit section of the M6 smart motorway and visibility is fine in the dark. If you can't see ahead in the dark then you need your eyes testing. If the moon is out then the light is even better!

I think you could quite easily see an unlit broken down car as long as your are concentrating yourself.