Why are the roads in such a bad state ? Maybe an answer here

[KeithW]

There seems to be a massive lack of expertise in Welsh Council highways officers compared to the Trunk ones. Like there's a brain drain from local authorities. I have often lamented the state of the Cardiff A470 and surrounding area compared to the (trunk) Taff Valley road. Similarly I have complained about the Cardiff Airport road (A48-A4226) not being trunked, as the Council mismanagement of the upgrades and ongoing utility works there have almost certainly contributed to the historic losses made by the ('trunked') airport, plus the abject misery for thousands of commuters for two years and counting. Any trunk authority would look at the West Barry roundabout and say "that needs work" while all the Vale Council has done is changed the left hand entry lanes to the roundabout to be left only, resulting in huge queues in the mornings as the principal flows (ahead and right) now squash into one lane. All to make their new road look more accessible. Well, I can't access it, because I'm a mile back, queueing with all the drivers that used to have two lanes onto the roundabout and now have one. Congratulations, another excellent scheme.

I know in my area that the highways coordinator is double-jobbing, also being responsible for neighbourhood services which I believe includes refuse collection, another department in extreme turmoil here. I wonder whether they are overworked, or underqualified to be highway authority heads.

More likely underfunded. Middlesbrough council are at the point of having to prioritise what they work on in this manner.

Trunk Roads - HE maintain them - not our problem

Then in order of priority
1) Safety issues such as collapsed surface , sinkholes etc. There are still old mines that show up from time to time
2) Primary Roads such as the A172, non trunk sections of the A174, A66 , A171 etc
3) Primary Distributor Roads such as Stainton Way
4) Lesser A Roads and B Roads
5) Unclassified roads

Footpaths and cycleways are reviewed using the same system. A safety issue on one of them will also be priority 1

Central government aid for local road maintenace was radically reduced between 2005 and 2018. Since then the TVCA has managed to get some extra funding for regionally important non trunk roads linking the boroughs of Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough etc. Improvements to the non trunk A66 from Middlesbrough to Teessport is one example.

There is no available budget for new road development, indeed they have to prioritise repair and maintenance as follows.

Priority 1 - Safety related

1A) - those that require a 2 hour response because of their immediate hazard
1B) - those that require a 24 hour response because they represent an
imminent hazard.

Some defects are potentially so dangerous that immediate action is required. These
are defects which due to their nature and location represent a very serious risk to the
public such as exposed electrical equipment, collapsed or missing covers or gratings
in carriageways or footways, all of which must not be left unattended unless and until
adequate barriers, warning signs or cones have been put out.

Priority 2
All defects identified in safety inspections which are not categorised as Category 1 are
automatically classified as Category 2. The commentary in 5.6 above is also clearly
applicable to defects classed as Category 2.
Response times for remedial action are specified in 5.2 above, and for Category 2
defects are as follows:
Priority 2H - make safe or repair within 5 working days
Priority 2M - repair within 28 days
Priority 2L - repair during next available programme, schedule a more detailed
inspection or review condition at next inspection.

Minimising long term costs has been a high priority and in some cases produces solutions that while practical are downright ugly. One example is the replacement of paving slabs on footways with tarmac which requires less maintenance.

The network for which the council is responsible is a follows
326 miles of highway
721 miles of footways
22,000 streetlights
215 bridges and other highway structures
135 traffic signal-controlled junctions or crossings

How do I know all this ?

Well my local councillor, who is an independent got stuck with the responsibility for it when the ruling Labour group was kicked out in the 2019 local elections. Another new independent councillor is Jim Platt who was a rather a good footballer in his day playing in goal for Northern Ireland , Middlesbrough, Hartlepool and Ballymena.

He now chairs the Adult Social Care and Services Scrutiny Panel and
Children and Young People's Learning Scrutiny Panel

Interesting times. BTW increases in the local rates were capped by central government in 2012, any increase above 3% has to be supported by a local referendum. The cost of holding one generally equals or exceeds the amount which would be raised so nationally only one has ever happened and that was defeated.

[DB617]

Without wanting to stray too far into politics, my Council could do with some independents, as could my soon to be adopted one in Edinburgh. Old guard is a big issue for Councils currently and it shows in everything. As well as spending hours a day on the roads I have to deal with their housing and in places it is abysmal. Then again, given half a log for funding, nobody is going to be able to polish that to be shiny enough to cover the whole County.

Funnily enough, the collapsed section of the A4226 surface is finally being removed some time early this year. It has been that way for at least the whole time I've been driving, so four years. The yellow spray paint lines have finally blessed us with their presence. We've all just about gotten used to treating the inner 1.5m of the road surface as being unsafe, so now they're going to put it all back!

[Debaser]

No there isn't always money for humps. Road safety schemes were massively cut back following the ending of road safety grants around 2014-15.

Funnily enough the general downward trend in road fatalities stopped around that time too and has sort of flatlined.

The legacy of the imbecile that was Eric Pickles, who as local government secretary decided to wade into transport matters despite it not being his job. Although compared to Grayling he was a pure genius...

When they get installed every 100m, that is a bit excessive...

In fact, from memory 100m is the recommended maximum spacing, above which speeds can creep up.

[Berk]

So not being run over by a car trumps having clean, pure air to breathe.

I’m sure this girl would’ve appreciated less fumes in her neighbourhood.

[KeithW]

So not being run over by a car trumps having clean, pure air to breathe.

I’m sure this girl would’ve appreciated less fumes in her neighbourhood.

Well given which one is likely to kill you immediately the answer is yes. This is a tragic case which could have been helped had the family been moved. Note that in the 1930's my mothers family moved out of central Middlesbrough when her sister became very ill with a bronchial condition which turned out to be tuberculosis . Of course in those years the problem was heavy industry and smoke from domestic fires. I remember as a child how bad those smogs were. The bottom line is that the girl had very bad asthma and pollution always had made that worse.

Yes we have to reduce air pollution but London was known as The Smoke long before motor cars were on the road. As with many towns in river valleys it is prone to inversion layers where pollution is trapped between 2 atmospheric layers and cannot disperse. Even in the time of Elizabeth the first people were complaining about the foul air. One of the retrograde steps when it comes to air pollution is that in the name of going carbon zero we relaxed the clean air rules to allow wood stoves to be used. The BMA has been criticising this for years as they can emit 10 times more NO2 and PM10 than a car.

[fras]

Went out today along the A534 from Nantwich. Resurfacing carried out only around five years ago is already breaking up. AFAIK it was done using the British version of SMA, yet SMA is used all over Germany and their roads are like billiard tables, so how come it is so useless here in the UK ?

[Bryn666]

So not being run over by a car trumps having clean, pure air to breathe.

I’m sure this girl would’ve appreciated less fumes in her neighbourhood.

Apart from it's only people who drive like morons that increase emissions between speed humps - it is quite easy to drive a modern car at 20 mph in 3rd gear without revving to the redline. As ever, it's just excuses by people who think their right to drive trumps all else.

[trickstat]

So not being run over by a car trumps having clean, pure air to breathe.

I’m sure this girl would’ve appreciated less fumes in her neighbourhood.

Apart from it's only people who drive like morons that increase emissions between speed humps - it is quite easy to drive a modern car at 20 mph in 3rd gear without revving to the redline. As ever, it's just excuses by people who think their right to drive trumps all else.

It really makes no sense whatsoever to drive hard between reasonably closely-spaced speed humps. It is jerky, noisy, wasteful and causes additional wear and tear to your vehicle whilst probably saving no or very little time.

[Chris Bertram]

So not being run over by a car trumps having clean, pure air to breathe.

I’m sure this girl would’ve appreciated less fumes in her neighbourhood.

Apart from it's only people who drive like morons that increase emissions between speed humps - it is quite easy to drive a modern car at 20 mph in 3rd gear without revving to the redline. As ever, it's just excuses by people who think their right to drive trumps all else.

It really makes no sense whatsoever to drive hard between reasonably closely-spaced speed humps. It is jerky, noisy, wasteful and causes additional wear and tear to your vehicle whilst probably saving no or very little time.

However, it also rarely makes sense to slow down to a crawl over each and every hump, as the owner of a Toyota private hire vehicle did yesterday morning in front of me through a stretch of humps which could easily have been straddled and driven over at 20-ish.

[trickstat]

Apart from it's only people who drive like morons that increase emissions between speed humps - it is quite easy to drive a modern car at 20 mph in 3rd gear without revving to the redline. As ever, it's just excuses by people who think their right to drive trumps all else.

It really makes no sense whatsoever to drive hard between reasonably closely-spaced speed humps. It is jerky, noisy, wasteful and causes additional wear and tear to your vehicle whilst probably saving no or very little time.

However, it also rarely makes sense to slow down to a crawl over each and every hump, as the owner of a Toyota private hire vehicle did yesterday morning in front of me through a stretch of humps which could easily have been straddled and driven over at 20-ish.

I agree. For me, the worst drivers are those who accelerate hard between humps and slam the brakes on to crawl over them. I think the best way is to take the bumps at a speed about as fast as feels comfortable and safe for your car and only accelerate and brake gently between them.

[AndyB]

Quite. I see so many drivers who are utterly clueless about driving over humps - slow down to 3mph, speed up to 25, brake sharply to 3, and repeat, instead of easing off and either rolling over or accelerating gently over them, average speed much higher and more pleasant.

I'd understand it if it were the rubber sleeping policemen which they can't lawfully use on public roads.

[M5Lenzar]

Apart from it's only people who drive like morons that increase emissions between speed humps - it is quite easy to drive a modern car at 20 mph in 3rd gear without revving to the redline. As ever, it's just excuses by people who think their right to drive trumps all else.

Perhaps if roads weren't vandalised in this manner people wouldn't behave like this. 20mph is too slow unless the road is narrower than a full S2.

[AndyB]

Perhaps if Martin Cassini were right about drivers being competent to choose an appropriate speed for the circumstances, instead of insisting on the "right" to drive at 30mph no matter whether the road conditions are suitable for it, then they wouldn't have to install road humps.

The idea that the width of a road dictates whether 20mph is too slow rather than the risk to other road users of exceeding that limit is symptomatic.

[rhyds]

So not being run over by a car trumps having clean, pure air to breathe.

I’m sure this girl would’ve appreciated less fumes in her neighbourhood.

Apart from it's only people who drive like morons that increase emissions between speed humps - it is quite easy to drive a modern car at 20 mph in 3rd gear without revving to the redline. As ever, it's just excuses by people who think their right to drive trumps all else.

redline in 3rd would be closer to 80mph (if your engine will even pull to the limiter in 3rd). The problem with doing 20 in 3rd is the engine labouring as you accelerate away (depending on engine torque curve and gearing).

[M5Lenzar]

Perhaps if Martin Cassini were right about drivers being competent to choose an appropriate speed for the circumstances, instead of insisting on the "right" to drive at 30mph no matter whether the road conditions are suitable for it, then they wouldn't have to install road humps.

The idea that the width of a road dictates whether 20mph is too slow rather than the risk to other road users of exceeding that limit is symptomatic.

So competent drivers who actually do bother to observe the situation should be kept slower?

20mph is not a suitable limit except on narrow roads. Otherwise it is far too slow.

[AndyB]

Competent drivers are not the problem.

Drivers who either think they are competent or don't care whether they are competent or not, and who therefore drive as they please are the problem.

That's why we get road humps which are present at all times of day or night to cope with drivers who drive according to the width of the road instead of what is happening around it at times when driving as they please kills and maims.

And yes, that means the rest of us suffer. But if it saves lives, it's a price worth paying.

[Bryn666]

Perhaps if Martin Cassini were right about drivers being competent to choose an appropriate speed for the circumstances, instead of insisting on the "right" to drive at 30mph no matter whether the road conditions are suitable for it, then they wouldn't have to install road humps.

The idea that the width of a road dictates whether 20mph is too slow rather than the risk to other road users of exceeding that limit is symptomatic.

So competent drivers who actually do bother to observe the situation should be kept slower?

20mph is not a suitable limit except on narrow roads. Otherwise it is far too slow.

How unfortunate that the safety of others gets in the way of your commute. I really feel for you.

[KeithW]

So competent drivers who actually do bother to observe the situation should be kept slower?

20mph is not a suitable limit except on narrow roads. Otherwise it is far too slow.

If its a quiet residential road where a kid can run from a drive chasing a ball, dog or another child it is in my opinion entirely suitable which is why in the USA such roads can have speed limits as low as 15 mph.

Prima Facie Speed Limits
Ohio also uses prima facie speed limits (sometimes called “presumed” limits). Prima facie speed limits work a little different than absolute limits. If you exceed a prima facie speed limit it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re guilty. You still have the opportunity to prove in court that your speed was safe. If you’re able to do so, the judge is supposed to find you not guilty. And if a cop clocks you at a speed that’s under the presumed limit, there’s a presumption that you’re not in violation of Ohio’s basic speeding law (see above).

Unless otherwise posted, Ohio’s prima facie speed limits include:

15 miles per hour in alleys within a municipal corporation
20 miles per hour in school zones
25 miles per hour in business districts
35 miles per hour on highways outside business districts, and
50 miles per hour on state routes within municipal corporations outside urban districts.

Note most of these limits are NOT posted, as a driver you are supposed to know what the limit is and they are enforced. Indeed many a small community receives a lot of its income from such fines.

[M5Lenzar]

If its a quiet residential road where a kid can run from a drive chasing a ball, dog or another child it is in my opinion entirely suitable which is why in the USA such roads can have speed limits as low as 15 mph.

If it's the kind of road where kids are likely to run out, I'd hope that the road itself is indeed designed to be traversed at sub-30mph speeds!

It doesn't need additional, suspension damaging hazards that do not distinguish between the competent and the stupid.

The road I live on, for example. It's quiet enough that kids have been known to play with balls in the street itself. This actually is enough to terrify me into not going very fast at all - and the fact it's a narrow S1 thanks to parked cars only adds to that!

[AndyB]

If its a quiet residential road where a kid can run from a drive chasing a ball, dog or another child it is in my opinion entirely suitable which is why in the USA such roads can have speed limits as low as 15 mph.

If it's the kind of road where kids are likely to run out, I'd hope that the road itself is indeed designed to be traversed at sub-30mph speeds!

What, like road humps?

It doesn't need additional, suspension damaging hazards that do not distinguish between the competent and the stupid.

The road I live on, for example. It's quiet enough that kids have been known to play with balls in the street itself. This actually is enough to terrify me into not going very fast at all - and the fact it's a narrow S1 thanks to parked cars only adds to that!

For a driver to wilfully traverse a road hump in such a way as to damage their suspension suggests that they are definitely not competent.