Why are the roads in such a bad state ? Maybe an answer here

[fras]

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304085 ... nance.com/

Unfortunately, Mr Summers no longer maintains this website, and it has now been archived.

Here is a key extract from his newsletter of 2001 that probably explains why all the road junctions are being destroyed rather quickly: -

Super Singles

A "super single", for those of you who may be unaware, is a wheel/tyre, that is used on a heavy goods vehicle, that is proportionately larger and more robust so that it can replace a dual wheel assembly.
If you now start looking at wheel assemblies on HGV's, especially trailer units, you will note the significant amount of vehicles that use these tyres.
The tyre has a much greater tyre pressure and a larger individual "footprint" (but a smaller "footprint" than two standard tyres combined) to be able to carry the same load as the dual assembly, and is therefore much more damaging to the road pavement.
It is also likely that because of the increased tyre pressure that they also generate more noise at the road interface.
I write about this topic because whilst reading,
TRL Report 193 : Accelerated full-scale load testing of recycled heavy duty macadam roadbase material,
I noted a small paragraph that the author obviously thought merited inclusion, and I quote.

"The wear produced in the pavements trafficked by the super single assembly after 0.5 million equivalent standard axle applications was 4 times greater than that produced by 1.8 million equivalent standard axles applied through the dual wheel assembly, the majority of which were at a significantly higher wheel load."

If this work can be verified, it is my opinion that this simple statement has huge significance in indicating a rate of deterioration of existing road pavements far greater than anticipated, and a need to substantially revise design guides for future road building.

I leave heads far wiser than mine to ascertain whether my fears have any basis(my bold/underline).

Needless to say, no wise heads seem to have looked at the problem !!

[ForestChav]

Would be plausible - and you can indeed see the wear patterns in the left hand lanes of motorways, where HGVs tend to exclusively be - if the state of the side roads wasn't even worse with all the pot holes. Probably a few harsh winters where no-one's cleared the road surface of ice and snow allowing freeze/thaw actions through the day, in these cases, along with the neglect of any damage caused meaning broken surfaces are more susceptible to further freeze/thaw damage and additionally damage from being driven over.

[Ruperts Trooper]

I thought the extra wear rate of trailers with super singles on three axles, rather than twin wheels on two axles, had been established a couple of decades ago.

[novaecosse]

I thought the extra wear rate of trailers with super singles on three axles, rather than twin wheels on two axles, had been established a couple of decades ago.

I believe it’s already taken into account in the Wear Factors in the DMRB.

[Micro The Maniac]

I thought the extra wear rate of trailers with super singles on three axles, rather than twin wheels on two axles, had been established a couple of decades ago.

The empirical evidence suggests road wear is a lot worse in the last ten years... coincidentally, since the HGV weight limit was increased from 38t to 44t

[Moore_O]

Tramline ruts in lane 1 have been a thing since I started driving thirty years ago.

I remember driving my Mini 1000 along the A14, for instance, having fun running my offside wheels in one rut, then swapping to the nearside.

[trickstat]

Tramline ruts in lane 1 have been a thing since I started driving thirty years ago.

I remember driving my Mini 1000 along the A14, for instance, having fun running my offside wheels in one rut, then swapping to the nearside.

I remember the section in Suffolk between Newmarket and Stowmarket having 'grooves' that were visible to the naked eye.

[Fenlander]

I know harsh winters get a lot of blame but we’ve barely had a frost yet this winter and the roads are in a shocking state. I believe water to be a far bigger problem than ice, driving regular routes as I do I’ve seen newly surfaced roads deteriorate and pothole right at the points where you see standing water, which are often as expected the familiar rutting caused by heavy lorries. There’s a hole just up the road from me where I spotted the depression almost as soon as the tarmac was laid and I’ve seen it develop into crazing then bigger & bigger chunks being blasted out as tyres force the water through the cracks and erode the edges. You can easily see the blasted out debris both in the gutter and on the pavement next to it whenever it rains.

[RichardA35]

I thought the extra wear rate of trailers with super singles on three axles, rather than twin wheels on two axles, had been established a couple of decades ago.

I believe it’s already taken into account in the Wear Factors in the DMRB.

Yes HD37 part 3 seems to account for it. I remember a rutting episode making the headlines on M25 J7-8 clockwise with HRA roadbase being either the problem or the solution but it was 25 years ago....

[tommym8]

Some observations.

In general the increased width of tyres fitted to cars in the last 20 years, especially SUV's, has also increased the wear on the roads. The tyres fitted to cars of the pre 90's era seem like bicycle tyres compared to the car tyres of today.

The number of cars and vans registered in the UK grew from 15m to 30m between 1980 and 2010.

The increase in weight limits for HGV's has reduced the number of vehicles that would have been needed to carry the goods of today if the limit was still at 32t. Swings and roundabouts.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Some observations.

In general the increased width of tyres fitted to cars in the last 20 years, especially SUV's, has also increased the wear on the roads. The tyres fitted to cars of the pre 90's era seem like bicycle tyres compared to the car tyres of today.

The number of cars and vans registered in the UK grew from 15m to 30m between 1980 and 2010.

The increase in weight limits for HGV's has reduced the number of vehicles that would have been needed to carry the goods of today if the limit was still at 32t. Swings and roundabouts.

It's the increase in weight, not the tyre section - my mk2 Escort had 155 section tyres but was only 960 kg kerbweight - my Touareg has 265 tyres and is about 2380 kg kerbweight

[tommym8]

Some observations.

In general the increased width of tyres fitted to cars in the last 20 years, especially SUV's, has also increased the wear on the roads. The tyres fitted to cars of the pre 90's era seem like bicycle tyres compared to the car tyres of today.

The number of cars and vans registered in the UK grew from 15m to 30m between 1980 and 2010.

The increase in weight limits for HGV's has reduced the number of vehicles that would have been needed to carry the goods of today if the limit was still at 32t. Swings and roundabouts.

It's the increase in weight, not the tyre section - my mk2 Escort had 155 section tyres but was only 960 kg kerbweight - my Touareg has 265 tyres and is about 2380 kg kerbweight

I wasn't suggesting that the increased tyre size was a vanity project, merely pointing out that more rubber contact with the tarmac = greater wear and tear on the surface. QED

[ForestChav]

Some observations.

In general the increased width of tyres fitted to cars in the last 20 years, especially SUV's, has also increased the wear on the roads. The tyres fitted to cars of the pre 90's era seem like bicycle tyres compared to the car tyres of today.

The number of cars and vans registered in the UK grew from 15m to 30m between 1980 and 2010.

The increase in weight limits for HGV's has reduced the number of vehicles that would have been needed to carry the goods of today if the limit was still at 32t. Swings and roundabouts.

It's the increase in weight, not the tyre section - my mk2 Escort had 155 section tyres but was only 960 kg kerbweight - my Touareg has 265 tyres and is about 2380 kg kerbweight

I wasn't suggesting that the increased tyre size was a vanity project, merely pointing out that more rubber contact with the tarmac = greater wear and tear on the surface. QED

Actually spreading the weight of the car on larger tyres would decrease the pressure exerted on the surface...

[trickstat]

It's the increase in weight, not the tyre section - my mk2 Escort had 155 section tyres but was only 960 kg kerbweight - my Touareg has 265 tyres and is about 2380 kg kerbweight

I wasn't suggesting that the increased tyre size was a vanity project, merely pointing out that more rubber contact with the tarmac = greater wear and tear on the surface. QED

Actually spreading the weight of the car on larger tyres would decrease the pressure exerted on the surface...

Agreed - what would hurt more - a 10 stone woman accidentally treading on a foot wearing stilettos or a 10 stone woman accidentally treading on a foot in flat shoes?

[RichardA35]

I wasn't suggesting that the increased tyre size was a vanity project, merely pointing out that more rubber contact with the tarmac = greater wear and tear on the surface. QED

Actually spreading the weight of the car on larger tyres would decrease the pressure exerted on the surface...

Agreed - what would hurt more - a 10 stone woman accidentally treading on a foot wearing stilettos or a 10 stone woman accidentally treading on a foot in flat shoes?

However the question is not about the load carrying capacity of the pavement but wear. Consider what would be the effect on the aggregate if more surface area of tread is scrubbing across the top of the exposed stone on each pass of an axle and the aggregate only has a finite life?
The term aggregate abrasion value and Google are your friends here.

[fras]

I thought the extra wear rate of trailers with super singles on three axles, rather than twin wheels on two axles, had been established a couple of decades ago.

The extract I quoted was from the 2001 News Letter of the website, so, yes, decades ago, but absolutely nothing done about this, nor, indeed about the huge deterioration in country lanes with no HGV traffic caused by the massive increase in size and weight of agricultural vehicles. Lanes near me in Cheshire have been absolutely smashed to bits by the enormous tractors that seem to be an essential part of modern farming.

[someone]

The extract I quoted was from the 2001 News Letter of the website, so, yes, decades ago, but absolutely nothing done about this, nor, indeed about the huge deterioration in country lanes with no HGV traffic caused by the massive increase in size and weight of agricultural vehicles. Lanes near me in Cheshire have been absolutely smashed to bits by the enormous tractors that seem to be an essential part of modern farming.

What did you want to have done? Reinforce 250 million miles of road? Ban the lorries and tractors? Change to an agrarian lifestyle?

There is no money for the former and the economy cannot afford the second. As for the latter, tell a motorist to just sometimes get a bus and they will lecture you on how you are a bad pedestrian and unable to think.

[fras]

The extract I quoted was from the 2001 News Letter of the website, so, yes, decades ago, but absolutely nothing done about this, nor, indeed about the huge deterioration in country lanes with no HGV traffic caused by the massive increase in size and weight of agricultural vehicles. Lanes near me in Cheshire have been absolutely smashed to bits by the enormous tractors that seem to be an essential part of modern farming.

What did you want to have done? Reinforce 250 million miles of road? Ban the lorries and tractors? Change to an agrarian lifestyle?

There is no money for the former and the economy cannot afford the second. As for the latter, tell a motorist to just sometimes get a bus and they will lecture you on how you are a bad pedestrian and unable to think.

Don't be ridiculous ! Some relatively small actions could have been taken to mitigate the effects of certain designs of HGVs, and limits placed on size and weight of agricultural vehicles. Weight limits should have been imposed to prevent firms establishing HGV depots on minor country lanes such as there are less than a mile from where I live.

[KeithW]

The extract I quoted was from the 2001 News Letter of the website, so, yes, decades ago, but absolutely nothing done about this, nor, indeed about the huge deterioration in country lanes with no HGV traffic caused by the massive increase in size and weight of agricultural vehicles. Lanes near me in Cheshire have been absolutely smashed to bits by the enormous tractors that seem to be an essential part of modern farming.

The country lanes and tractors thing is a chimera, while tractors are larger so are their tyres, the reality is that high ground pressure is a very bad thing when moving across fields. Normal cars and LGV's apply a pressure of around 25-30 psi to the road, a tractor is usually at most 8-10 psi.

They are also mostly limited to 25 mph. In my experience the main problem with country lanes is that they get minimal maintenance, at best every few years they get a layer of bitumen and stone chippings laid on them. As much of an issue in the areas where I lived were large HGV's. If nothing else their tyres chew up the edges of the roads.

This is a classic example. As large vehicles go round the corner you can clearly see where the tyres are scrubbing away the edge of the road which then starts to crumble.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.14795 ... authuser=0

and here
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.14642 ... authuser=0

This was all done in just a few weeks after the road was resurfaced. Its not uncommon to come across a large HGV with its offside tyres well over the centre line of the road. As the main roads become congested you see more and more of these vehicles using unsuitable roads.

Croydon Hill is especially scary as you can come over the brow of the hill to see a large HGV grinding up it in low gear and the road is so narrow that you end up pulling on to the verge, the results are clear to see. Again this was just a few months after the road had been resurfaced.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.12571 ... authuser=0

About 10 years ago I came across an LGV on its side , I can only surmise he went up to high to avoid the HGV coming up the hill and it toppled. Reversing back up the hill to a point where I could turn round was fun.

Where I now live we see the same thing on Gunnergate Lane. The council put in A sharp bend at the end but the trucks just ride over the grass.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52386 ... authuser=0

The Give Way sign has been knocked down more than once. Some of the worst offenders are the council rubbish trucks. The entire length of Gunnergate Lane got so bad it had to planed down and resurfaced 2 years ago. There are no tractors on this road just trucks using it as a short cut between Stainton Way and the A172 Stokesley Road.

[avtur]

Some of the worst potholes I can think of currently are on local roads which are not subject to HGV or heavy agricultural traffic. I think scapegoating large vehicles and introducing vehicle restrictions may not result in the required solution. Imposing restrictions could have a detrimental effect on businesses that are located away from urban sprawl. I remember some part-time HGV driving I did a couple of years ago required me to visit many farm locations with a 44ton artic, imposing vehicle restrictions would simply lead to more vehicles on the road, the very reason why the HGV limit was lifted from 32 to 44 tons.

Speed also plays a factor, the hydraulic hammering of water into small defective openings in a road surface is one of the main causes of the small defect opening up to become a large defect, this process is accelerated as vehicles ravel faster.