Birmingham unveils Ghent-style plan to reduce traffic levels

[fras]

So what do they do then, install gates and literally stop people driving past a certain point ? The reality on the ground of what is implied by this EU impost must be clearly stated. 2021 is only 12 months away. I'll bet only GB will implement it, it will be totally ignored in Southern Europe.

Maybe the economics demand that the fines be paid and life carry on ! I'd be interested to see what the fines will be spend on by central government. It could be a zero-sum game as all a government has to do is recycle the money back in the form of grants for various transport schemes.

[roadtester]

Let's breathe in those sooty diesel fumes to show the Europeans who's boss!

We need a drastic clean up regardless of whether the EU is saying we should do it or not.

[Berk]

Are buses included in the air quality fines from day 1?? Or do they get a free pass??

It’s all very well being anti-car (even EV’s don’t seem to cut it with campaigners); buses have to be green too. And taxis.

There are also limits to how far (and long) it’s physically able to walk. Even if you’re a fit, healthy human being. The novelty of an 8-mile round trip to the supermarket and back would get lost pretty quickly.

Especially if it was raining or snowing.

[Steven]

There are also limits to how far (and long) it’s physically able to walk. Even if you’re a fit, healthy human being. The novelty of an 8-mile round trip to the supermarket and back would get lost pretty quickly.

I'm not entirely convinced that there's anywhere in Birmingham that's an 8 mile round trip from a supermarket. I'm also not entirely convinced that there are too many supermarkets larger than Tesco Metro-style within the old Middle Ring Road.

[Bryn666]

So what do they do then, install gates and literally stop people driving past a certain point ? The reality on the ground of what is implied by this EU impost must be clearly stated. 2021 is only 12 months away. I'll bet only GB will implement it, it will be totally ignored in Southern Europe.

Maybe the economics demand that the fines be paid and life carry on ! I'd be interested to see what the fines will be spend on by central government. It could be a zero-sum game as all a government has to do is recycle the money back in the form of grants for various transport schemes.

Nope.

Most European cities have had low emission zones with harsher regulations than London's for some time now.

Crit'Air in France bans virtually everything below Euro 6 without grades of expensive permit, Milan has the biggest LEZ in Italy that bans most diesel vehicles, the Madrid ZEZ is ZERO emissions vehicles only.

One minute on Google shows that, as usual, the only people not taking air quality seriously is the majority of the UK!

London's ULEZ has worked wonders. You could taste the air before, not any more. Bring on more of them.

[WHBM]

London's ULEZ has worked wonders. You could taste the air before, not any more.

I actually live here and breathe it. The air has always been fine. This is a complete fiction by those who don't live here.

[Big Nick]

London's ULEZ has worked wonders. You could taste the air before, not any more.

I actually live here and breathe it. The air has always been fine. This is a complete fiction by those who don't live here.

The fumes are harmful and the pollution does smell. I spend a week in the Lake District and my breathing is easy, I can smell the flowers etc. One day at work in central London and I can be blowing dark brown snot out of my nose. London is cleaner than it was 30 years ago but it still has a way to go.

Clean Air Acts, more efficient engines, less household coal fires, fewer industries, removing the power stations. All these have helped.
If you think London's buildings look clean and shiny just remember that St Paul's Cathedral was black with dirt in the 1990s. It, and many other public edifices, have been jetwashed and thoroughly cleaned.
Here's one great example - https://wmf.org.uk/Projects/st-georges-bloomsbury/

[Jeni]

London's ULEZ has worked wonders. You could taste the air before, not any more.

I actually live here and breathe it. The air has always been fine. This is a complete fiction by those who don't live here.

You're just used to it.

Even coming from Manchester into London you could taste it when you went around London.

[Herned]

I actually live here and breathe it. The air has always been fine. This is a complete fiction by those who don't live here.

Are the 40,000 early deaths per year attributable (by proper science) to air pollution a complete fiction?

The Clean Air Act etc must have been based on fiction as well, as were all the other legal measures.

[Bryn666]

I love the levels some people will go to deny the fact they are contributing to a problem by trying to gaslight everyone and proven science.

Of course the air in London is perfect. That's why it exceeded its EU legal limits within three days last year.

Still when we leave the EU we can bring back leaded petrol and coal fires in city centres - we can have good old British Air Quality!

[Ruperts Trooper]

I actually live here and breathe it. The air has always been fine. This is a complete fiction by those who don't live here.

Are the 40,000 early deaths per year attributable (by proper science) to air pollution a complete fiction?

The Clean Air Act etc must have been based on fiction as well, as were all the other legal measures.

I'm part of that "proper" science - my COPD and heart failure may have been caused by historical exposure to several very different causes, but without a post-mortem it's impossible to say which - doctors can't afford the time to investigate especially as the treatment and outcome is the same anyway - so the causes of my COPD and heart failure were arbitrarily allocated to whichever cause was politically important at the time of diagnosis.

I'd love to see some proper science - we haven't had any yet!

[Herned]

I'd love to see some proper science - we haven't had any yet!

No. There are literally no scientists working on this, anywhere. It's all a conspiracy

[Ruperts Trooper]

I'd love to see some proper science - we haven't had any yet!

No. There are literally no scientists working on this, anywhere. It's all a conspiracy

It's a statistical convenience.

[Big L]

Birmingham car ban: How would the scheme work?

[Jeni]

Pollution isn't killing people, and the earth is flat.

[Chris5156]

Are buses included in the air quality fines from day 1?? Or do they get a free pass??

The fines aren't per-vehicle. The local authority will be fined if certain levels of particulates are present in the air at measurement points across the city. It doesn't matter whether those particulates come from bus exhaust pipes, or cars, or canal barges, or trains, or industry, or fashionable wood burning stoves, or whatever else. I don't know how you could possibly exclude buses from the measurement.

I actually live here and breathe it. The air has always been fine. This is a complete fiction by those who don't live here.

I live here too and also breathe it, but I'm not daft enough to think that not being able to see clouds of smog around me means the air is clean and safe to breathe.

By the same token, your house presumably doesn't have a carbon monoxide alarm, on the basis that you can't see or smell carbon monoxide so it must be OK to breathe.

[Herned]

Pollution isn't killing people, and the earth is flat.

It is. If I put a football down on a flat piece of ground it doesn't roll away - ergo, the earth must be flat. Because if I can't prove it, it must be a lie

[Debaser]

Still when we leave the EU we can bring back leaded petrol and coal fires in city centres - we can have good old British Air Quality!

Perhaps we can re-start/expand one of our historically more successful export businesses - acid rain. Not that the Europeans were ever grateful, even when we gave it away free. Another good reason to get the 'B' word done.

[Beardy5632]

It’s a shame as I like driving them tunnels but at the end of the day if it helps reduce pollution then I’m all for it. Hopefully other cities like Manchester, Hereford etc follow suit

[fras]

It's the 1970s Nottingham Lilac Leopards all over again ! No doubt some people are already slavering at the thought of a Birmingham "Zone and Collar" scheme.