BBC: New UK housing ‘dominated by roads’

[Truvelo]

When I replaced the side garage on my house with a two storey extension the planning permission stated the garage had to be retained for the parking of vehicles. The internal dimensions are 16' x 8' which means I can get the Mondeo inside and then chip the paint on the door to open it. Therefore I fitted it out with permanent shelving and is now my workshop.

It's strange how easy it is to convert an existing garage into another room but impossible when building one from scratch. I've looked at other planning applications in the area and they all come with the same stipulations for new builds and extensions. Exactly what is the policy from local councils regarding parking? They seem to be clueless.

[KeithW]

It also looks a bit odd in being divided up into so many separate rooms - I thought people tended towards something a bit more open-plan these days.

In most modern houses the interior walls tend to be stud walls clad with plasterboard instead of being plastered onto the breeze blocks so removing them is pretty trivial as is remodelling them to change room sizes. In my current 70's house they are all non load bearing breeze block which makes it rather messier. The reason there is no door into the garage from the house is fire regulations. Any such door has to be compliant with fairly stringent regulations so builders tend just to use a breezeblock wall.

Integral Garages and Fire Safety
Internal doors to integral garages should be FD30 fire doors, and include smoke seals and self-closing devices. (These are the only doors inside a dwelling that require self-closing doors.)

Garage floors should also be sloping outwards or at least 100mm lower at these doors to prevent fuel spillage leaking in to the home.

[Berk]

I hope you can park (all) your cars on the driveway, not the street.

[roadtester]

It also looks a bit odd in being divided up into so many separate rooms - I thought people tended towards something a bit more open-plan these days.

In most modern houses the interior walls tend to be stud walls clad with plasterboard instead of being plastered onto the breeze blocks so removing them is pretty trivial as is remodelling them to change room sizes. In my current 70's house they are all non load bearing breeze block which makes it rather messier. The reason there is no door into the garage from the house is fire regulations. Any such door has to be compliant with fairly stringent regulations so builders tend just to use a breezeblock wall.

Integral Garages and Fire Safety
Internal doors to integral garages should be FD30 fire doors, and include smoke seals and self-closing devices. (These are the only doors inside a dwelling that require self-closing doors.)

Garage floors should also be sloping outwards or at least 100mm lower at these doors to prevent fuel spillage leaking in to the home.

Yes - I vaguely remember the builders saying something about the fire regs when I asked them about it.

An internal door wouldn't be much use anyway when there's a car in the garage. There isn't much space to get around the car to get stuff out, and in terms of getting in to the car to drive off, there's no automatic/electric door opening so I would still have to go outside to open the main garage door.

Might be handy if I were using the garage for storage without the car in it, but even then the gain in convenience isn't that great.

Even so, it still feels a bit odd as all of the previous integral garages I'd come across - e.g. in my late parents' last two houses - did have access between the house and the garage.

I'm guessing the regs have changed over time.

[Fenlander]

It also looks a bit odd in being divided up into so many separate rooms - I thought people tended towards something a bit more open-plan these days.

In most modern houses the interior walls tend to be stud walls clad with plasterboard instead of being plastered onto the breeze blocks so removing them is pretty trivial as is remodelling them to change room sizes. In my current 70's house they are all non load bearing breeze block which makes it rather messier. The reason there is no door into the garage from the house is fire regulations. Any such door has to be compliant with fairly stringent regulations so builders tend just to use a breezeblock wall.

Integral Garages and Fire Safety
Internal doors to integral garages should be FD30 fire doors, and include smoke seals and self-closing devices. (These are the only doors inside a dwelling that require self-closing doors.)

Garage floors should also be sloping outwards or at least 100mm lower at these doors to prevent fuel spillage leaking in to the home.

We had our internal garage converted to be part utility (basically one end of it done as a big cupboard to hide it all away) & part dining room, as the family's use of the rooms has changed it's now still part utility but the dining table has gone back into the kitchen (no 'formal' dining table anymore, just the daily use family one) and is now known as "the snug", basically it's a kids playroom without the toys - the boys play xbox, watch youtube etc in there by day and I do the same by night while my wife watches her stuff in the lounge. Being an older property we have lots of outside space though so can park the cars off road outside the front of the house while still having a large back garden.
As mentioned upthread, a lot of newbuild estates count the garage as off road provision so when they're converted it reduces the parking spaces by 1 and can increase the occupancy count as it frees up space elsewhere in the house, a negative double whammy.

My sister had her internal garage turned into a sensory room for her disabled daughters, after they died it's been reinvented as the playroom for her other daughters (although one has now progressed to the horses & boys stage instead of toys).

My parents live on their own in a large 4 bed detached and looked at downsizing into a 2/3 bed bungalow with a smaller garden but they'd have come out of any swap with hardly any surplus so have carried on living where they are. They bought it as basically a shell in 1979 and did almost all the work on it themselves, Grand Designs style, but of course fashion and trends have changed since then and a lot of potential buyers can't see past the walls being where they are so they see a separate kitchen & dining room, no en-suite etc.

[Mark Hewitt]

We had our internal garage converted to be part utility (basically one end of it done as a big cupboard to hide it all away) & part dining room, as the family's use of the rooms has changed it's now still part utility but the dining table has gone back into the kitchen (no 'formal' dining table anymore, just the daily use family one) and is now known as "the snug", basically it's a kids playroom without the toys - the boys play xbox, watch youtube etc in there by day and I do the same by night while my wife watches her stuff in the lounge. Being an older property we have lots of outside space though so can park the cars off road outside the front of the house while still having a large back garden.

Amongst other things I'd love to have a play room like that. Having got an XBox set up in the living room contention for the TV is rife and would love to send the kids off to the other room to play on the XBox instead, or do so myself! We do have a small conservatory that is currently mostly toy storage, but it's very bright all year round, freezing in the winter, boiling in the summer.

[Fenlander]

Our lounge is a bit like the old fashioned front parlour, mostly kept for best or my wife to watch TV. The playroom proper has a wall of Kallax holding all the board games and Lego and all the usual primary school age boys toys, it is 'allowed' to be messy as it's mostly used by the kids and we can shut the door to it and pretend that looks tidy instead. It used to be full of train tracks but both boys have grown away from that so they've gone and we've used a piece of floorspace for a table again. The snug is sort of a digital playroom, as well as the xbox it's got the desktop PC and as the tumble drier lives behind one of the doors at the utility end of the room it's never cold in there so it's become the go-to spot for me after the kids have gone to bed. Sometimes I watch TV, sometimes I play the xbox, sometimes I just veg out and read (or doze off).

I don't think I'd have specifically looked for 3 rooms like that when we were house hunting 8 years ago but having the space meant we have been able to vary the function without even having to knock any walls through (except putting a doorway in to the ex-garage).

[KeithW]

Yes - I vaguely remember the builders saying something about the fire regs when I asked them about it.

An internal door wouldn't be much use anyway when there's a car in the garage. There isn't much space to get around the car to get stuff out, and in terms of getting in to the car to drive off, there's no automatic/electric door opening so I would still have to go outside to open the main garage door.

Might be handy if I were using the garage for storage without the car in it, but even then the gain in convenience isn't that great.

Even so, it still feels a bit odd as all of the previous integral garages I'd come across - e.g. in my late parents' last two houses - did have access between the house and the garage.

I'm guessing the regs have changed over time.

There has been a requirement for a fire door for a long time, what is relatively new is the requirement for a sloped floor or step up into the house which is harder to retrofit. My garage is exterior built in the same brick as the house and is 4m x 5m so I can get my car in and have a workbench down one side and storage on the other. It has an up and over door with an electric actuator and rear door that opens outward so I can get in and out even when the car is inside. It also has lights, power and water so is really useful. My neighbout had the same setup but had it rebuilt as a granny flat.

[M5Lenzar]

I have not seen anyone use their garage to actually park a car since my grandfather used to park his Talbot Horizon in his - and he died in 1992.

If I ever have a home with a garage I probably won't either - though it'd depend on the car I have.

[KeithW]

I have not seen anyone use their garage to actually park a car since my grandfather used to park his Talbot Horizon in his - and he died in 1992.

If I ever have a home with a garage I probably won't either - though it'd depend on the car I have.

I am rather old fashioned I guess. All my houses since 1990 have had a garage and that's where my car was kept. No scraping ice off the car windows on a cold morning. The last two even had electric door openers so I dont even have to get out of the car to open them - perfect

[Berk]

I have not seen anyone use their garage to actually park a car since my grandfather used to park his Talbot Horizon in his - and he died in 1992.

If I ever have a home with a garage I probably won't either - though it'd depend on the car I have.

If you haven’t filled your garage up with junk, why wouldn’t you use it?? Especially with winter frosts.

Another reason estates are filling up with cars is because owner-occupiers have garages, but choose not to use them for parking.

Or they choose a property which is cheap and affordable, but not suitable for their needs (grown-up kids, 2x work vans and four/five cars in the household).

If you’re happy to pave over your front garden/turn to gravel, I can live with that. Just don’t turn your street into another car park.

[Berk]

Yes - I vaguely remember the builders saying something about the fire regs when I asked them about it.

An internal door wouldn't be much use anyway when there's a car in the garage. There isn't much space to get around the car to get stuff out, and in terms of getting in to the car to drive off, there's no automatic/electric door opening so I would still have to go outside to open the main garage door.

Might be handy if I were using the garage for storage without the car in it, but even then the gain in convenience isn't that great.

Even so, it still feels a bit odd as all of the previous integral garages I'd come across - e.g. in my late parents' last two houses - did have access between the house and the garage.

I'm guessing the regs have changed over time.

There has been a requirement for a fire door for a long time, what is relatively new is the requirement for a sloped floor or step up into the house which is harder to retrofit. My garage is exterior built in the same brick as the house and is 4m x 5m so I can get my car in and have a workbench down one side and storage on the other. It has an up and over door with an electric actuator and rear door that opens outward so I can get in and out even when the car is inside. It also has lights, power and water so is really useful. My neighbout had the same setup but had it rebuilt as a granny flat.

My Dad’s parents moved into a new-build bungalow in 1983. The garage access was on the level, sort of. You had to leave the kitchen via the back/garden door, walk a couple of steps past the meter cupboard, and into the garage.

If there was a doorstep, it was only a small one - barely a couple of inches if that. The access was gated from the front (and padlocked), so it was either out the kitchen, or up the front.

[trickstat]

I live* in a flat on a small, late 80s built estate. I think almost every house has a garage either as part of its plot or in a nearby small compound. However, partly due to there being little internal storage space the majority of people do not keep a car in their garage. The bigger houses have drives but these are often insufficient as some households have 3 or more cars (including the odd van). Some people have converted their garage into a room.

*No garage but I have an off-street parking space.

[Mark Hewitt]

Another reason estates are filling up with cars is because owner-occupiers have garages, but choose not to use them for parking.

Houses in the UK are small. You have in a garage an inside space which is very valuable in being able to use it as living space. The question is more why would you ever choose to use it to put a car inside that is perfectly fine outside when you can use it as a living space.

[doebag]

Another reason estates are filling up with cars is because owner-occupiers have garages, but choose not to use them for parking.

Houses in the UK are small. You have in a garage an inside space which is very valuable in being able to use it as living space. The question is more why would you ever choose to use it to put a car inside that is perfectly fine outside when you can use it as a living space.

Personal choice, why would I choose to buy a £30,000 car and park it on the street at the risk of theft, damage etc. when I can park it securely in my garage.

[roadtester]

My garage is exterior built in the same brick as the house and is 4m x 5m so I can get my car in and have a workbench down one side and storage on the other. It has an up and over door with an electric actuator and rear door that opens outward so I can get in and out even when the car is inside. It also has lights, power and water so is really useful. My neighbout had the same setup but had it rebuilt as a granny flat.

I think if you asked people what they actually wanted from a garage - most of them would describe something like that.

Enough room to park the car, and enough space for shelving , storage, a workbench or whatever, and perhaps to get around the car while it's in place as well.

So why isn't that what the builders usually give us?

I suppose one problem is that in estate agent speak it can still only be described as a single garage, and you can get away with providing something a lot smaller and less useful than that, and still tick the same box.

[Glom]

Look at this floor plan they have for one of them with an integrated garage. You can be sure that 99% of people buying one of those houses will immediately convert the garage into a utility room / play room / anything other than storing a car. That's nearly 1/4 of the downstairs floor space!

I'm clearly an oddity in that I would love to have a garage on my next house so that I can put my car in it! But I have very little in the way of general 'stuff' to put in a big empty space. I don't particularly have a preference for an internal or external garage if the rest of the floorspace is configured right.

I want one for my bike. It's a bit of a faff getting it out of the garden shed and bringing out the front.

[Ruperts Trooper]

My garage is exterior built in the same brick as the house and is 4m x 5m so I can get my car in and have a workbench down one side and storage on the other. It has an up and over door with an electric actuator and rear door that opens outward so I can get in and out even when the car is inside. It also has lights, power and water so is really useful. My neighbout had the same setup but had it rebuilt as a granny flat.

I think if you asked people what they actually wanted from a garage - most of them would describe something like that.

Enough room to park the car, and enough space for shelving , storage, a workbench or whatever, and perhaps to get around the car while it's in place as well.

So why isn't that what the builders usually give us?

I suppose one problem is that in estate agent speak it can still only be described as a single garage, and you can get away with providing something a lot smaller and less useful than that, and still tick the same box.

Where planning restrictions require a set number of parking spaces, an impractically small garage qualifies even though the developer knows it's likely to be converted into living space - my 1976 house has a semi-integral garage, just 8'3" at it's widest internally but only 6'9" between support pillars - I had trouble getting out of a 1980 Escort so have no chance with a modern car.

[KeithW]

My garage is exterior built in the same brick as the house and is 4m x 5m so I can get my car in and have a workbench down one side and storage on the other. It has an up and over door with an electric actuator and rear door that opens outward so I can get in and out even when the car is inside. It also has lights, power and water so is really useful. My neighbout had the same setup but had it rebuilt as a granny flat.

I think if you asked people what they actually wanted from a garage - most of them would describe something like that.

Enough room to park the car, and enough space for shelving , storage, a workbench or whatever, and perhaps to get around the car while it's in place as well.

So why isn't that what the builders usually give us?

I suppose one problem is that in estate agent speak it can still only be described as a single garage, and you can get away with providing something a lot smaller and less useful than that, and still tick the same box.

I guess it comes down to cost. in the NE Land is relatively cheap and in general exterior garages are cheaper to build as you can get away with a single skin construction so higher priced developments will come with them but even then they tend to be single garages.

[Steven]

I have not seen anyone use their garage to actually park a car since my grandfather used to park his Talbot Horizon in his - and he died in 1992.

There's a car in my garage right now.