Road Investment Strategy 2

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jackal
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by jackal »

nowster wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 17:43
jackal wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 15:45 HE are being less specific than 'more free-flowing movements' now, presumably to give them scope to bodge it like Wisley, but there will be substantial works at the interchange.
All left turns are free-flowing already. The only logical way to make it work better (other than to turn it into a four-level stack) would be to remove the existing four lane roundabout and replace it with a light-controlled crossroads (only two phases for the four right turn movements) in the middle. In other words, flattening a four level stack design into three levels. (Credit for this idea to Chris5156)
As discussed previously a stacked SPUI may not be physically possible at Simister: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21512&p=410272

In any case it's far better to improve a stackabout with an extra freeflow right turn via a loop (e.g. Tarbuck Island, Brook Street) or semi-direct connector (Lofthouse or Darenth ).

Ideally HE would do a full freeflow rebuild, as when the Belgians rebuilt the Lummen stackabout as a whirlpool, but given recent dross I'd settle for one freeflow right turn.
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nowster
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by nowster »

Compare the two sites at the same scale:

Lummen: https://goo.gl/maps/cxQZYa5yi2y2T8Ep6
Simister: https://goo.gl/maps/tSzmbM83WKM3xzJt6
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jackal
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by jackal »

Sure, but I'm not proposing they recreate Lummen. I still like my design from 2016:

Simister1 - Copy.jpg

HE should at least manage to freeflow M60>M60 clockwise.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

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jackal wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 21:08HE should at least manage to freeflow M60>M60 clockwise.
You’ll have to forgive me if I don’t get my hopes up until plans showing it have been published!
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by Chris Bertram »

Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:57
MayzieY wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:46
Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 09:43 And we are also at the start of a long-term trend where ICE vehicles will be replaced by electric vehicles (I'm not there yet personally, but it will happen). The emissions issue will abate. But these vehicles will still need the tarmac on which to travel. Do we wait for the transition to happen, or build now? I vote that we build.
Chris, see this recent article on non-exhaust emissions, quote copied from the start of its Executive Summary:

"Non-exhaust emissions (NEE) from road traffic refers to particles released into the air from
brake wear, tyre wear, road surface wear and resuspension of road dust during on-road
vehicle usage. These emissions arise regardless of the type of vehicle and its mode of power,
and contribute to the total ambient particulate matter burden associated with human ill-heath
and premature mortality. No legislation is currently in place specifically to limit or reduce NEE
particles, so whilst legislation has been effective at driving down emissions of particles from
the exhausts of internal-combustion-engine vehicles, the NEE proportion of road traffic
emissions has increased
. "


https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/docu ... _Final.pdf
Well, of course it will if the absolute quantity of emissions reduces as a result of tailpipe emission reductions only. But this is sly use of language which some people will interpret to mean that NEE emissions themselves are increasing, which they are not. Now, I'm not saying that efforts should not be made to reduce NEE emissions per vehicle, but asserting that the switch to EVs would not be an improvement in and of itself is dishonest.
Further to this, I think roadtester would remind us that EVs provide benefits in the braking area as well, as they use regenerative braking much more than friction braking, thus saving substantially on brake pad dust and also on tyre wear. That leaves us with road surface wear (does this also reduce from regenerative braking?) and the road dust issue. No idea what you do about the last of these, but the transition to EVs looks like reducing pollution all-round.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by Steven »

It's just a shame that the nice gap for the originally planned flyover to land was removed when the M60 to the south of J19 was constructed.

That would have been such an easy fix as it was designed in.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by Truvelo »

Is M60 to M60 the busiest movement now? I would have thought south<>east would be busier now. When heading to and from Leeds I use the southeast side of the M60 in preference to the northwest because it suffers less delays and the recent A556 improvements make this route more attractive now.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

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Truvelo wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 13:28 Is M60 to M60 the busiest movement now? I would have thought south<>east would be busier now. When heading to and from Leeds I use the southeast side of the M60 in preference to the northwest because it suffers less delays and the recent A556 improvements make this route more attractive now.
On Friday evenings before "The Event"¹ the anticlockwise M60 would back up sometimes as far as A663 Broadway junction, presumably due to the lack of capacity in the M60(ACW) to M62(E) movement at Simister.

__
¹ Mitchell and Webb reference
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by jackal »

Based on mainline volumes (M60W>M62>M60S=M66) I'd guess that the right turn volumes are in this order:

M60W>M60S
M66>M60W
M60S>M62E
M62>M66

The heaviest flows of all are of course the M60W<>M62 mainline, so the original plan (as redrawn by Truvelo) remains a good one, though M60S>M60W is already freeflow at the roundabout and could be omitted:

Image

The flare is still substantial (about six lanes wide). There's plenty of space to land the M60W>M60S slip there at least.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by Truvelo »

I'm surprised that M66 to M60 west is second busiest in your list. Perhaps there's a lot of commuter traffic from Bury and Rawtenstall heading into Manchester via the A580 and M602.
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jackal
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by jackal »

Well, it's just a guess, albeit an educated one. The M60W is comfortably the busiest road here, so it stands to reason that the main turns are to/from it. A potentially misleading factor is the high profile of the M60 compared to the M66, when volumes between the M60S and M66 are actually very similar.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by traffic-light-man »

Truvelo wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 14:54 I'm surprised that M66 to M60 west is second busiest in your list. Perhaps there's a lot of commuter traffic from Bury and Rawtenstall heading into Manchester via the A580 and M602.
I was quite surprised by that too, though I do try and avoid using Simister (and in fact all of the ex-M62 sections of the M60) all together at peak times, for obvious reasons, so I'll be missing the bigger picture entirely.

That traffic wouldn't be likely to head for the A580 unless heading out of Manchester though, there's no M60(ACW) to A580(SE) link at Worsley. Though it could (and I imagine does) use the A666 to reach the A6, and similarly the A56 depending on what part of the city it was heading for.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by kevinse16 »

I do wonder because of the financial implications of the lockdown on near future government spending, how many of the projected much needed major road schemes will be cancelled once this situation is over
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by KeithW »

kevinse16 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 16:51 I do wonder because of the financial implications of the lockdown on near future government spending, how many of the projected much needed major road schemes will be cancelled once this situation is over
They may take the view that such plans are a good way of getting more people back to work and business moving. A lot of roads were built in the 1930's for exactly that reason.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by RichardA35 »

KeithW wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 17:06
kevinse16 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 16:51 I do wonder because of the financial implications of the lockdown on near future government spending, how many of the projected much needed major road schemes will be cancelled once this situation is over
They may take the view that such plans are a good way of getting more people back to work and business moving. A lot of roads were built in the 1930's for exactly that reason.
Then again people may also think that programmes of major works may slip because they rather think the government has matters to consider that have rather higher priority at present.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

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The fiscal situation is highly favourable for govt spending with gilt yields near historic lows:

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/uk-bond ... 2020-04-21
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by Debaser »

RichardA35 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 17:36
KeithW wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 17:06
kevinse16 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 16:51 I do wonder because of the financial implications of the lockdown on near future government spending, how many of the projected much needed major road schemes will be cancelled once this situation is over
They may take the view that such plans are a good way of getting more people back to work and business moving. A lot of roads were built in the 1930's for exactly that reason.
Then again people may also think that programmes of major works may slip because they rather think the government has matters to consider that have rather higher priority at present.
Depends what you mean by 'near future' but certainly all the RIS1-held-over-to-RIS2 schemes we have are full steam ahead on the detailed design; a fact which has meant we (as a highway design department) have managed to avoid furloughs and reduced hours other departments and other consultancies have had to implement.
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by Debaser »

Doesn't look like there's another relevant thread on this, but HE have published their RIS2 Delivery Plan.

https://www.highwaysmagazine.co.uk/High ... d-map/8517
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by jervi »

Debaser wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 17:37 Doesn't look like there's another relevant thread on this, but HE have published their RIS2 Delivery Plan.

https://www.highwaysmagazine.co.uk/High ... d-map/8517
Nice that they have provided a timeline of when they are installing SVD. The M20 project (that I don't think it 100% complete yet) is getting it this year, along with the M3. But the M23 that is very close to being fully open with NSL is getting it in 2021-2022, I'm sure the people of Sussex will throw their toys out the pram again due to more road works, and likely the same people who complain that they are too dangerous too.

This information I think is new:
We will also continue with our ongoing safety monitoring to evaluate whether existing and new smart motorways are as safe as, or safer than the conventional motorways they replaced. We will provide annual reporting from October 2020
Also interesting to see that the A27 Worthing-Lancing improvements are due to be open to traffic beyond RP2, seems odd since the works were only going to take 18 months and due to start 2020. - Just had a look on the HE website, A27 Worthing - Lancing start date is now 2024-2025... They are probably making sure that the Arundel Bypass going to be near end of construction before committing to any works at Worthing
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Re: Road Investment Strategy 2

Post by jackal »

A few things I picked up:

Lower Thames Crossing to start construction Q4 2022-23.

10 additional emergency areas on the M25 (on sections with highest rates of stops)

"We will end the use of dynamic hard shoulder smart motorways, upgrading them to all lane running by converting the hard shoulder into a permanent traffic lane. We will upgrade all existing dynamic hard shoulder motorways by March 2025." The relevant sections are listed as individual schemes. The first to open are M62 J25-30 and M6 J4-5 in 2022-23.
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