Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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Bryn666
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by Bryn666 »

Crimbo13 wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 10:48 The A56 between the end of the M66 at Edenfield and the M65 junction 8 has plenty of foot crossings including at least 3 on the A682 spur into Rawtenstall. There is also a rather precarious cycle lane southbound between the A682 spur and the A56 mainline.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RzqQktcLR7seMunR7
All the ones north of Rising Bridge have been rebuilt to feature tactile paving - because crossing a 70 mph dual carriageway 250m above sea level is exactly where you want pedestrians, especially blind ones, to be directed.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by mfmman »

There is one on the A4 Keynsham bypass, I have seen people using very occasionally

https://goo.gl/maps/4y125nuVekZ2boCF6


The route around is less than a ten minute walk so I'm surprised it's still open
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by John McAdam »

KeithW wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 11:01
Rambo wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 09:57 Another one. This time a proper footpath crossing the A49 on a bend which is NSL. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2622399 ... 384!8i8192
Looking at the thing it hardly seems to be heavily used, more like unused in fact.
Hardly a surprise that a user-unfriendly (or rather user-hostile) crossing isn't used much. Which leads to the knock-on that the footpaths leading to them might well not get much use. And some might come to the conclusion that therefore they don't matter much. Which would absolutely be the wrong way round to look at things!

These footpaths need the provision of proper crossings, preferably bridges or subways. (If the latter, then in particular they require some regular TLC too.)
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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Had to cross on foot at this beauty this morning:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4437429 ... 384!8i8192

Not quite sure how anyone thought this would be a good place to put an uncontrolled pedestrian crossing - the sightlines of high speed motorway traffic when crossing from left to right leaves a considerable amount to be desired....
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by Chris5156 »

c2R wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:48 Had to cross on foot at this beauty this morning:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4437429 ... 384!8i8192

Not quite sure how anyone thought this would be a good place to put an uncontrolled pedestrian crossing - the sightlines of high speed motorway traffic when crossing from left to right leaves a considerable amount to be desired....
You have to wonder whether much thought went into it at all. It appears to cross the sliproad under motorway regulations, which makes it a footpath on a motorway.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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c2R wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:48 Had to cross on foot at this beauty this morning:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4437429 ... 384!8i8192

Not quite sure how anyone thought this would be a good place to put an uncontrolled pedestrian crossing - the sightlines of high speed motorway traffic when crossing from left to right leaves a considerable amount to be desired....
Where does that footpath connect, to the west? I've been trying to trace it on maps and satellite images / Street View but they contradict each other.

I know that I've complained about NMU provision at that junction before now (I've also crossed it on foot, but I used the other bridge of the two-bridge roundabout so I didn't come across the crossing seen there); this was during the M42 J5A/J6 consultation, but I was told that they didn't plan to improve it. Many motorway/A-road junctions are very easy to cross on foot, but that one's a major exception.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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ais523 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 17:45
c2R wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:48 Had to cross on foot at this beauty this morning:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4437429 ... 384!8i8192

Not quite sure how anyone thought this would be a good place to put an uncontrolled pedestrian crossing - the sightlines of high speed motorway traffic when crossing from left to right leaves a considerable amount to be desired....
Where does that footpath connect, to the west? I've been trying to trace it on maps and satellite images / Street View but they contradict each other.

I know that I've complained about NMU provision at that junction before now (I've also crossed it on foot, but I used the other bridge of the two-bridge roundabout so I didn't come across the crossing seen there); this was during the M42 J5A/J6 consultation, but I was told that they didn't plan to improve it. Many motorway/A-road junctions are very easy to cross on foot, but that one's a major exception.
The path is really narrow behind the crash barrier around the filter lane to the west, and then when the sliproad joins the A45's main westbound carriageway you lose the crash barrier and the path becomes spontaneously a wide, shared cycle and footpath.

You then cross the railway on a local access road before leaving that behind again and heading up over the sliproad to Bird Island.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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c2R wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 19:57
ais523 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 17:45
c2R wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:48 Had to cross on foot at this beauty this morning:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4437429 ... 384!8i8192

Not quite sure how anyone thought this would be a good place to put an uncontrolled pedestrian crossing - the sightlines of high speed motorway traffic when crossing from left to right leaves a considerable amount to be desired....
Where does that footpath connect, to the west? I've been trying to trace it on maps and satellite images / Street View but they contradict each other.

I know that I've complained about NMU provision at that junction before now (I've also crossed it on foot, but I used the other bridge of the two-bridge roundabout so I didn't come across the crossing seen there); this was during the M42 J5A/J6 consultation, but I was told that they didn't plan to improve it. Many motorway/A-road junctions are very easy to cross on foot, but that one's a major exception.
The path is really narrow behind the crash barrier around the filter lane to the west, and then when the sliproad joins the A45's main westbound carriageway you lose the crash barrier and the path becomes spontaneously a wide, shared cycle and footpath.

You then cross the railway on a local access road before leaving that behind again and heading up over the sliproad to Bird Island.
The design manuals allow this to begin with, so someone has just slavishly stuck an unusable route in and said it complies.

I think my views on the complete shambles that is DMRB are well known by now.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by WHBM »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 20:03 The design manuals allow this to begin with, so someone has just slavishly stuck an unusable route in and said it complies.
Absence of barriers, maybe, but I don't think they allow pedestrian footpaths to cross designated motorways at all, which is the case here; in fact users seem to be breaching the Special Roads Act 1949, or whatever its successor is.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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WHBM wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 22:23
Bryn666 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 20:03 The design manuals allow this to begin with, so someone has just slavishly stuck an unusable route in and said it complies.
Absence of barriers, maybe, but I don't think they allow pedestrian footpaths to cross designated motorways at all, which is the case here; in fact users seem to be breaching the Special Roads Act 1949, or whatever its successor is.
The position of the end of motorway signs is irrelevant in terms of design here, the DMRB allows an uncontrolled crossing of this type across a slip road adjacent to interaction with an all-purpose road. These types of paths crossing slip roads are everywhere, and they sever pedestrian routes because no one in their right mind wants to use them unless they absolutely have to.

It's classic car is king, screw everyone else, design and as far as I'm concerned paths like this are tantamount to corporate manslaughter when someone is invariably killed on one because of inadequate intervisibilty. Sticking up a "pedestrians crossing" sign does not change the fact this is socially exclusive design and I'm sure an appropriate challenge under the Equalities Act would cause lots of trouble for any highway engineer still designing these today regardless of what DMRB says.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by WHBM »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 22:49
The position of the end of motorway signs is irrelevant in terms of design here
I don't believe so. Regulatory signs, of which this is one, governing a change in legal regulations from a Special Road to an All Purpose Road, have to be accurately positioned. Putting them on the wrong side of a provided pedestrian path is just wrong. An accident there would have a smart driver's lawyer say the signage showed it was within motorway regulations, so the pedestrian had no business being there, which would be an interesting one for NH to rebut.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by KeithW »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 22:49 The position of the end of motorway signs is irrelevant in terms of design here, the DMRB allows an uncontrolled crossing of this type across a slip road adjacent to interaction with an all-purpose road. These types of paths crossing slip roads are everywhere, and they sever pedestrian routes because no one in their right mind wants to use them unless they absolutely have to.
They are however public rights of way and some crossed all purpose D2 roads NOT just sliproads. There were two that crossed the A14 at Catthorpe, when that was placed under motorway regulations a new Bridleway under the carriageway had to be provided.

A similar issue arose when the A1 was upgraded to A1(M) at Dishforth, There was a public right of way where Highfields Lane/Moor Lane crossed the A1. The token concession that had been made when the A1 was dualled was a style so pedestrians could clamber across the Armco. The new layout has an overbridge,
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.12459 ... 8192?hl=en

There was a similar setup a few miles south at Grafton Grange.

At Great Ponton a pedestrian footbridge was built due to the hazards produced by people crossing the road.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.86270 ... 8192?hl=en

The old A14 from Girton to Godmanchester was notorious in this regard, the new arrangement brought proper NMU access and a the cycle bridge.
Last edited by KeithW on Mon Nov 22, 2021 08:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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There is a tolerance for placement of regulatory signs where an exact position is not possible. The signs here are clearly placed behind the crossing to improve visibility of it, probably as a response to a safety audit which won't tell someone to rigidly place signs in a manner that they interfere with sightlines.

The real issue is sod all to do with is it on a motorway by half a metre or not. The issue is entirely down to a ridiculous design being permitted in the first place, someone genuinely thinks this qualifies as pedestrian infrastructure.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by multiraider2 »

There's a couple on the Southend Arterial, A127 between the Halfway House and the Dunton interchanges. NSL in this area. One here. Another here.
Can't see a way through the bushes to the north side of the road for either.

There is one warning sign, (out of four) for these two crossings, shown here. I wouldn't fancy taking either of these on and I'm guessing they are very lightly used despite the presence of some off-road businesses in the area and the road actually having a pavement here.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by danfw194 »

I cross this one regularly, it's part of the Leicestershire Round walking route:

Southbound A46

Northbound A46

I only do it at weekends and usually you don't have to wait more than 2/3 minutes, but it's still a bit hairy.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by Rambo »

For me the slip road example is more or less the same as any motorway junction / roundabout which tend to have pavements around them, especially where the slip road has a bend in it. example.. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3349208 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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Rambo wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:16 For me the slip road example is more or less the same as any motorway junction / roundabout which tend to have pavements around them, especially where the slip road has a bend in it. example.. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3349208 ... 312!8i6656
Not quite, the traffic approaching the roundabout has to give way to other traffic so is travelling more slowly, and, if it comes to a stop you can tend to cross after the lead car. Not that I'm defending the path in your link, which is pretty dreadful....

edit - although stepping back to the 2018 view, at least they've added a dropped kerb, although no tactile paving...
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by dseagull »

MotorwayGuy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 14:33 One on the A22 at Hailsham:
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.855672, ... 384!8i8192
That is a monumental, to the point of spooky, coincidence.

This is about 3 minutes from my house. Reading through the thread earlier today, and thought to myself must post that one later!

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8160107 ... 384!8i8192 This one's on Golden Jubilee Way, a couple of miles further on.
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Re: Public footpaths that cross dual carriageways

Post by Rambo »

Thread bump

I was recently at Rossett at a railway footbridge next to the A483. I always wondered where the footbridge went to but it seems the footpath crosses the A483 which is NSL at this point! https://www.google.com/maps/@53.113089, ... ?entry=ttu
While i was there. I was alarmed to see a large family making an attempt to cross. You can see the divide in the armco barrier. They had to wait quite a while for a gap in the traffic. This is a fast dangerous road almost motorway like. I'm not sure i would do the same especially with children in tow..
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