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A42_Sparks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 20:12
Is there a definitive lost of regional destinations used in GB?
Off the top of my head:
The NORTH
The SOUTH
The WEST
The NORTH WEST
The NORTH EAST
The SOUTH WEST
NORTH WALES
SOUTH WALES
The MIDLANDS
LONDON
The LAKES
The DALES
Any more? Is there a SCOTLAND on the M6 near the border? Is The EAST or The SOUTH EAST signed anywhere? I've seen 'South Lakes' on the M6 in mixed case.
In Northern Ireland we have:
The NORTH
The SOUTH
The WEST
NORTH COAST
Primary Destinations are the key target destinations (technically, "places of major traffic importance") within the United Kingdom that are shown on direction signs along major roads such as Motorways and Primary Routes. These destinations are important key points and are used in combination with local place names that are defined by each local Highway Authority. Primary destinations will appear above local destinations on direction signs due to a furthest first rule in the
A42_Sparks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 20:12
Is there a definitive lost of regional destinations used in GB?
Off the top of my head:
The NORTH
The SOUTH
The WEST
The NORTH WEST
The NORTH EAST
The SOUTH WEST
NORTH WALES
SOUTH WALES
The MIDLANDS
LONDON
The LAKES
The DALES
Any more? Is there a SCOTLAND on the M6 near the border? Is The EAST or The SOUTH EAST signed anywhere? I've seen 'South Lakes' on the M6 in mixed case.
Yes, "SCOTLAND" is signed on the M6 Northbound after J40. Scotland (mixed case) occurs once on the A1 at Berwick. "South West Scotland" (mixed case) occurs on a fork sign on the '74 northbound before J22 for the A75. "ENGLAND" and "England" both occur on roads in the Gretna area.
"The EAST" has a few instances in the respective city centres of Carlisle and Newcastle-upon-Tyne, even though in the case of the latter there is only about 10 miles of land actually to the east of it. "The SOUTH EAST" isn't signed anywhere at this time, signs for "The SOUTH" and "London" tend to imply that general area.
We see rather a lot of "SOUTH WALES", "NORTH WALES" and even "Mid WALES" on directional signage, but never do we seem to see just "Wales" or "WALES" on its own. Understandable because, given that internal links in Wales are on a par with the Medieval era, no single route would suffice for Wales-bound traffic.
"I see the face of a child. He lives in a great city. He is black. Or he is white. He is Mexican, Italian, Polish. None of that matters. What matters, he's an American child"
- Richard Nixon
Osthagen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 21:23
"The EAST" has a few instances in the respective city centres of Carlisle and Newcastle-upon-Tyne, even though in the case of the latter there is only about 10 miles of land actually to the east of it.
How could I forget the one on the old Camden Street motorway onslip in Newcastle: The NORTH, WEST & COAST
Osthagen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 21:23
We see rather a lot of "SOUTH WALES", "NORTH WALES" and even "Mid WALES" on directional signage, but never do we seem to see just "Wales" or "WALES" on its own. Understandable because, given that internal links in Wales are on a par with the Medieval era, no single route would suffice for Wales-bound traffic.
Travelling round the Shrewsbury bypass on the A5, at the A49 junction you get a choice between North Wales and South Wales. Take North Wales and, at the junction with A458, you get a choice between North Wales and Mid Wales
Osthagen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 21:23
We see rather a lot of "SOUTH WALES", "NORTH WALES" and even "Mid WALES" on directional signage, but never do we seem to see just "Wales" or "WALES" on its own. Understandable because, given that internal links in Wales are on a par with the Medieval era, no single route would suffice for Wales-bound traffic.
Travelling round the Shrewsbury bypass on the A5, at the A49 junction you get a choice between North Wales and South Wales. Take North Wales and, at the junction with A458, you get a choice between North Wales and Mid Wales
Maybe the only area that would look appropriate for a just ‘WALES’ would be the M6 from Catthorpe Interchange to Coleshill Interchange. The general direction would be for ‘WALES’ as well as ‘THE NORTH WEST’ with it diverging at Coleshill (J4); ‘SOUTH WALES’ for the M42(S) with ‘Mid & North Wales’ continuing on the M6 till the junction 10A for the M54.
Other than that, there really doesn’t seem to be anywhere on the road network that could justify having a just ‘WALES’ displayed.
Osthagen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 21:23
We see rather a lot of "SOUTH WALES", "NORTH WALES" and even "Mid WALES" on directional signage, but never do we seem to see just "Wales" or "WALES" on its own. Understandable because, given that internal links in Wales are on a par with the Medieval era, no single route would suffice for Wales-bound traffic.
Travelling round the Shrewsbury bypass on the A5, at the A49 junction you get a choice between North Wales and South Wales. Take North Wales and, at the junction with A458, you get a choice between North Wales and Mid Wales
Maybe the only area that would look appropriate for a just ‘WALES’ would be the M6 from Catthorpe Interchange to Coleshill Interchange. The general direction would be for ‘WALES’ as well as ‘THE NORTH WEST’ with it diverging at Coleshill (J4); ‘SOUTH WALES’ for the M42(S) with ‘Mid & North Wales’ continuing on the M6 till the junction 10A for the M54.
Other than that, there really doesn’t seem to be anywhere on the road network that could justify having a just ‘WALES’ displayed.
Coming up the M5 from the South West? Turn left at Bristol for South Wales, continue ahead for Mid & North Wales.
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Was92now625 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 23:44
Travelling round the Shrewsbury bypass on the A5, at the A49 junction you get a choice between North Wales and South Wales. Take North Wales and, at the junction with A458, you get a choice between North Wales and Mid Wales
Maybe the only area that would look appropriate for a just ‘WALES’ would be the M6 from Catthorpe Interchange to Coleshill Interchange. The general direction would be for ‘WALES’ as well as ‘THE NORTH WEST’ with it diverging at Coleshill (J4); ‘SOUTH WALES’ for the M42(S) with ‘Mid & North Wales’ continuing on the M6 till the junction 10A for the M54.
Other than that, there really doesn’t seem to be anywhere on the road network that could justify having a just ‘WALES’ displayed.
Coming up the M5 from the South West? Turn left at Bristol for South Wales, continue ahead for Mid & North Wales.
Yeah didn’t think about that one. Also thought about maybe the A42/M42 too?
Lewis1997 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 14:16
Maybe the only area that would look appropriate for a just ‘WALES’ would be the M6 from Catthorpe Interchange to Coleshill Interchange. The general direction would be for ‘WALES’ as well as ‘THE NORTH WEST’ with it diverging at Coleshill (J4); ‘SOUTH WALES’ for the M42(S) with ‘Mid & North Wales’ continuing on the M6 till the junction 10A for the M54.
Other than that, there really doesn’t seem to be anywhere on the road network that could justify having a just ‘WALES’ displayed.
Perhaps on the M56? There are a number of places in South Wales that are more quickly accessed from Cheshire by going M56-M53-A483 than by heading down the M6.
WALES would suffice on the M53, too. Diverging at J11, with the M56 taking you to NORTH WALES via the A494, while continuing down to the A483 for MID and SOUTH WALES.
The only regional destination that appears in Wales itself is CANOLBARTH LLOEGR (English Midlands). Signs for Y GOGLEDD (the north) or Y DE (the south) seem not to appear in Wales, more than likely due to the previously discussed state of roads in its interior.
"I see the face of a child. He lives in a great city. He is black. Or he is white. He is Mexican, Italian, Polish. None of that matters. What matters, he's an American child"
- Richard Nixon
Lewis1997 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 14:16
Maybe the only area that would look appropriate for a just ‘WALES’ would be the M6 from Catthorpe Interchange to Coleshill Interchange. The general direction would be for ‘WALES’ as well as ‘THE NORTH WEST’ with it diverging at Coleshill (J4); ‘SOUTH WALES’ for the M42(S) with ‘Mid & North Wales’ continuing on the M6 till the junction 10A for the M54.
Other than that, there really doesn’t seem to be anywhere on the road network that could justify having a just ‘WALES’ displayed.
Perhaps on the M56? There are a number of places in South Wales that are more quickly accessed from Cheshire by going M56-M53-A483 than by heading down the M6.
WALES would suffice on the M53, too. Diverging at J11, with the M56 taking you to NORTH WALES via the A494, while continuing down to the A483 for MID and SOUTH WALES.
The only regional destination that appears in Wales itself is CANOLBARTH LLOEGR (English Midlands). Signs for Y GOGLEDD (the north) or Y DE (the south) seem not to appear in Wales, more than likely due to the previously discussed state of roads in its interior.
Unfortunately the movements of J11 wouldn’t work for the M53. I suspect for NORTH WALES, most traffic from the Wirral exit at J5 for the A550 southbound to join the A494 near Deeside. You could have MID & SOUTH WALES continue on the M53 at this point. The M56 could have WALES too before J11, with NORTH WALES continuing ahead whilst exiting for the M53 southbound for MID & SOUTH WALES.
But would even the M5 or M53 really need "WALES"? That would be like having a sign at the A1(M)/M1 split for "The SOUTH WEST" - accurate, but slightly pointless.
Gareth Thomas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:42
That would be like having a sign at the A1(M)/M1 split for "The SOUTH WEST" - accurate, but slightly pointless.
I've seen that proposed on a thread here before. "The SOUTH WEST" would be more apt at J35 for the A1/M18.
Personally, I'd just sign "The WEST" at A1(M) J43, seeing as a lot of traffic will be bound for that region via the M62.
"I see the face of a child. He lives in a great city. He is black. Or he is white. He is Mexican, Italian, Polish. None of that matters. What matters, he's an American child"
- Richard Nixon
It always seems odd when there's a regional destination on a road which doesn't seem should have it - like the A12 on the final stretches northbound to Copdock displaying The MIDLANDS when it's heading away from it. It's obvious why it's there, as to direct the traffic from Harwich in that direction, but it is peculiar. Similarly, and I know I've mentioned this before, I can recall being on a coach going through London in pre-M25 days and seeing a sign for The NORTH...on the A13.
As for the lack of EAST and SOUTH-EAST, surely there are places that could have it? I'd have thought you could have south-east as well as London on the M4, M40 and M1. As for the east, why not the A14? You could argue that you could have it on the M62 and M8 as well - after all, they are going east. And I could swear blind I saw some for the east on or around the A45 in Northampton, which would make sense.
Mind you, I'd have The NORTH signed all the way up the A1 and then the M9/A9 up to Inverness, so perhaps it's best not to listen to my ideas....!
KevS wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 15:20
As for the lack of EAST and SOUTH-EAST, surely there are places that could have it? I'd have thought you could have south-east as well as London on the M4, M40 and M1. As for the east, why not the A14? You could argue that you could have it on the M62 and M8 as well - after all, they are going east. And I could swear blind I saw some for the east on or around the A45 in Northampton, which would make sense.
I suppose it is because there isn't that much "The SOUTH EAST" south east of London, just Kent really (Sussex would possibly be signed "The SOUTH" from London). The regional destinations are better on long distance roads, and there is a lot more "The NORTH" and "The WEST" around London than "The SOUTH EAST".
London itself is a destination on most major routes - would you really need "The EAST, London, Slough M4" for example when "LONDON" is a regional destination? "The EAST" could be used east of the M1 though, as there is a bit more EAST there than there is east of London - you could have "The EAST, Ipswich, Felixstowe A14"...
Gareth Thomas wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 00:41
London itself is a destination on most major routes - would you really need "The EAST, London, Slough M4" for example when "LONDON" is a regional destination? "The EAST" could be used east of the M1 though, as there is a bit more EAST there than there is east of London - you could have "The EAST, Ipswich, Felixstowe A14"...
Well, out of the two places where we actually see “The EAST”, one of them is central Newcastle-upon-Tyne, where “the east” consists of about 8 miles of dry land until you hit the North Sea coast.
"I see the face of a child. He lives in a great city. He is black. Or he is white. He is Mexican, Italian, Polish. None of that matters. What matters, he's an American child"
- Richard Nixon
Gareth Thomas wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 00:41
I suppose it is because there isn't that much "The SOUTH EAST" south east of London, just Kent really (Sussex would possibly be signed "The SOUTH" from London). The regional destinations are better on long distance roads, and there is a lot more "The NORTH" and "The WEST" around London than "The SOUTH EAST".
Agreed. I thought about where you might plausibly want to sign it from, and the only case I could come up with was along the M27, in the event that the A27 corridor was improved sufficiently to make it the preferred route to Ashford and east Kent generally.
On the M56 West at J15, you come across the following:
M56: NORTH WALES, Queensferry
M53: Chester, Wrexham
Signing the M56 to North Wales before J15 makes a lot of sense; traffic heading to NW will almost certainly continue west on the M56 up until that point. However, signing it here jars a little; firstly, Wrexham is in NW, therefore signing NW and Wrexham together at this point is incongruous to say the least. Plus, plenty of destinations in North Wales, inlcuding Llangollen, would be better accessed by joining the M53 at J15.
The following directional signage before J15:
M56: NORTH WALES, Chester
Then this at J15:
M56: Queensferry, Conwy, (and/or) Bangor
M53: Chester, Wrexham
... would be rather more accordant, in my opinion.
"I see the face of a child. He lives in a great city. He is black. Or he is white. He is Mexican, Italian, Polish. None of that matters. What matters, he's an American child"
- Richard Nixon
Osthagen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 20:28
On the M56 West at J15, you come across the following:
M56: NORTH WALES, Queensferry
M53: Chester, Wrexham
Signing the M56 to North Wales before J15 makes a lot of sense; traffic heading to NW will almost certainly continue west on the M56 up until that point. However, signing it here jars a little; firstly, Wrexham is in NW, therefore signing NW and Wrexham together at this point is incongruous to say the least. Plus, plenty of destinations in North Wales, inlcuding Llangollen, would be better accessed by joining the M53 at J15.
The following directional signage before J15:
M56: NORTH WALES, Chester
Then this at J15:
M56: Queensferry, Conwy, (and/or) Bangor
M53: Chester, Wrexham
... would be rather more accordant, in my opinion.
This is historical stuff not being updated as things change - when the signs were first installed the M53 stopped at a roundabout and you had a choice of poor roads to get to Wrexham. The A55/A483 improvements came later.
Bryn Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already. She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
