M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

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Bryn666
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 08:46 It seems the loop option has been selected :D

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/190406 ... r-reality/

I can't find the actual preferred route announcement (maybe out later today) but here's the consultation report which found "397 strongly supporting the Northern Loop option compared to 65 strongly supporting the Inner Links option":

https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... _final.pdf

PS - A staggering consultation response from Manchester City Council: "Overall view of scheme: As the scheme does not directly impact Manchester, a response is not felt to be needed".
Recent events have drawn me to conclude that Manchester City Council are irredeemably incompetent, that's why. They probably don't know what the M60 is.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

The PRA is now online: https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/ro ... eaflet.pdf

Some info about the timeframe:
We plan to submit our application for a DCO by winter 2021/22, and a decision is expected in summer
2023. We’ll be holding a statutory consultation ahead of our DCO submission, to inform our application.
... We currently expect work to start on site no later than March 2025.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Micro The Maniac »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:58 Recent events have drawn me to conclude that Manchester City Council are irredeemably incompetent, that's why. They probably don't know what the M60 is.
It's a central Manchester postcode...
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

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Micro The Maniac wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:50
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:58 Recent events have drawn me to conclude that Manchester City Council are irredeemably incompetent, that's why. They probably don't know what the M60 is.
It's a central Manchester postcode...
Can you build flats on it? If no, they're not interested.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by the cheesecake man »

Woa! :yikes: Driving round the loop will be a memorable experience! What will the speed limit be? 50? 40? 30? :stir:
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

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the cheesecake man wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 13:45 Woa! :yikes: Driving round the loop will be a memorable experience! What will the speed limit be? 50? 40? 30? :stir:
Looks to be the same sort of radius as the loop at Tarbock Island, so probably either mandatory 50 or NSL with advisory 50/40.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

It doesn't look much bigger than the Simister roundabout. I fancy it will be around 120m radius compared to 175m for the Tarbock Island loop.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

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jackal wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 15:48 It doesn't look much bigger than the Simister roundabout. I fancy it will be around 120m radius compared to 175m for the Tarbock Island loop.
Ah, at 120m it's likely going to be 70km/h design speed then, so expect a 40 limit. Still infinitely better than the current 4mph you manage between signals.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

That sounds about right.

Some loops have ridiculously stingy advisories, like 30mph on the big M6/M69 loop, and 45mph then 35mph on the vast M6/M42 loop. I would guess these are ad hoc additions after accidents and well below the design speeds.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

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jackal wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 16:13 That sounds about right.

Some loops have ridiculously stingy advisories, like 30mph on the big M6/M69 loop, and 45mph then 35mph on the vast M6/M42 loop. I would guess these are ad hoc additions after accidents and well below the design speeds.
I think so, the slip road onto the M56 westbound off the A556 at J8 now has an advisory 30 after we did some tests in our own cars and reported the speed at which we soiled ourselves and took an average, previously you came off the 50 limit A556 and passed an NSL sign. It has a radius of about 80m.

There isn't actually any real guidance on setting advisory limits, which is mainly because DfT don't appear to like them. Yet equally they don't like using isolated mandatory speed limits for specific hazards so some consistency would be nice, from TSM 4:

It is not easy to determine a standard safe speed to negotiate a bend; factors which influence this include radius of curvature, camber/superelevation, road surface condition and type of vehicle. The sign may be used where the road layout is such that a driver might be misled, e.g. at an exit from a high-speed road where significant slowing is required before negotiating a sharp bend. It may also be used on high-speed roads where the horizontal design radius cannot be achieved, but a lower mandatory speed limit is not imposed on that bend. It must not be used with mandatory speed limit signs, nor in place of repeater signs.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by A303Chris »

This press release from the HE saying that two thirds of people support the proposals also includes a nice fly through of the scheme.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

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A303Chris wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 09:46 This press release from the HE saying that two thirds of people support the proposals also includes a nice fly through of the scheme.
The video seems to show no signals on the roundabout. I assume that's just because nobody bothered to put them in, rather than any intent to remove them.

Similarly there are sign gantries without signs.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

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A303Chris wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 09:46 This press release from the HE saying that two thirds of people support the proposals also includes a nice fly through of the scheme.
The flythroughs of both options are available on our wiki page: Simister Island
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From the SABRE Wiki: Simister Island :


Simister Island - junction 18 of the M60, junction 18 of the M62 and junction 4 of the M66 - forms the north eastern corner of the M60 Manchester Outer Ring Road. Opened in 1971 as a standard two level roundabout with provision for an underpass onto the Bury Easterly Bypass (now M66) when constructed, it has since become vastly over-capacity.

In 1999 as part of the creation of the M60, the interchange was given free-flow sliproads for all left

... Read More
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

wrinkly wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 20:58
A303Chris wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 09:46 This press release from the HE saying that two thirds of people support the proposals also includes a nice fly through of the scheme.
The video seems to show no signals on the roundabout. I assume that's just because nobody bothered to put them in, rather than any intent to remove them.
They are removing one set of signals, on the western side of the junction. This is possible as the M60 clockwise movement is relocated to the loop.

You can see the detailed layout including signal locations and lane markings here:

https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... n%2018.jpg
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Truvelo »

So there are two lanes on the loop which surprises me these days when loops of larger radii have been reduced to a single lane.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by c2R »

I suppose because there is a large amount of turning traffic on that movement....
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by wrinkly »

I suppose you could call it the main clockwise carriageway of the M60.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

This planning application will be submitted in the Spring. In the meantime the scoping report lists a few sensible-sounding changes to the preferred route:
• Northern Loop – M60 westbound to M60 southbound – changed vertical alignment so
that M66 southbound diverge link goes onto structure over the Northern Loop link.
This results in a significant reduction of earthworks volumes compared to the PRA
design and also removes a retaining wall adjacent to the near straight on the M66
southbound merge
• M60 westbound merge and link from M60 northbound – removed offline link that was
shown in the PRA design to maintain use of existing M60 northbound to M60
westbound link. Westbound merge arrangement design has been modified so that the
merge occurs prior to Haweswater Aqueduct and weaving length to M60 J17 diverge
is increased
• M66 / M60 northbound and southbound lane provisions and cross-sections modified –
hard shoulders added to design, accommodated by reducing the cross-sectional width
of the central reserve to a minimum
• M60 J17 to J18 mainline lane provisions and cross-sections modified – To optimise
available verge (which is highly constrained) the central reserve has been designed to
be as efficient as possible taking into account the requirement for a concrete barrier
Seems like they have the A team on this one, though I did have to laugh at "small loop (radius of 100m)", which says something about the high bar for freeflow infrastructure in this country.

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... ERSION.pdf
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Bryn666 »

I'm surprised they've managed to fit hard shoulders in, or actually cared to do so - I thought such things were seen as superfluous these days...

The westbound weaving problem is indeed best solved by just retaining the existing free-flow lane arrangement - although they need to sort out the way this is marked out as currently M60 to M60 requires merging twice, it's often actually easier when the M60 anti-clockwise is stuffed to go through the signals and jump ahead of this line of traffic.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

NCE report that
National Highways has launched a consultation on its plans to close a gap in the M60 motorway around Manchester. National Highways has launched a consultation on its plans to close a gap in the M60 motorway around Manchester.

England’s major roads operator announced its preferred route for the Simister Island Interchange in January 2021 and has been working on preliminary designs since.
I haven't been able to find any consultation page but I guess it will open soon.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 022/?tkn=1
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