M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

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jackal
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M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

HE have put up a webpage for this improvement, with consultation to start at the end of the month. Some of the sparse detail so far:

- "We’ve developed a range of options for improving Simister Island Interchange, and we’ve now reduced these down to two options which will perform best against the project objectives".
- Cost £66m-£338m (!) - perhaps suggesting that the two options are drastically different in scale.
- Start date 2024, end date 2026.
- "The assessment so far indicates that the options are not expected to have significant impacts on the environment". As a junction improvement this is to be expected.
- "The junction is used by around 90,000 vehicles each day". Presumably this refers to the amount of turning traffic; including mainlines it would be ~250k.

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... terchange/
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by fras »

Am I missing something, because I can't find any maps of the options.
I had a quick look using Bing Maps, and the site is very constrained on the south east side, there is housing very close to the junction. Looking for free-flow, I suppose its not really required for the M66 approaches. I have passed this way quite often, but never at rush hours as I'm retired. I has all the look of a major bottleneck.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Helvellyn »

fras wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:06 Am I missing something, because I can't find any maps of the options.
I had a quick look using Bing Maps, and the site is very constrained on the south east side, there is housing very close to the junction. Looking for free-flow, I suppose its not really required for the M66 approaches. I have passed this way quite often, but never at rush hours as I'm retired. I has all the look of a major bottleneck.
What are the major flows? My assumption is that M60-M62 is the biggest, which is already freeflow but I couldn't guess that well the others (I've not been through it regularly enough to get a feel).

OP's right about the range of costs! Does the timescale tell us anything, bearing in mind it'll have to be done whilst keeping the junction functional?
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jackal
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

fras wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:06 Am I missing something, because I can't find any maps of the options.
They will presumably be up when the consultation opens at the end of June.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Bryn666 »

Why Simister doesn't work:

* M62 west -> M66 = the actual constraint is the loss of the third M66 lane some distance away at J2, this queues back to Simister on a bad evening.
* M60 anti-clockwise = the constraint is this movement is a single lane that has to merge twice, directly into the path of traffic wanting to exit at J17. This weaving causes everything to back up in all directions.
* M60 clockwise = this movement isn't atrocious because there are two lanes of traffic and there is a degree of signal optimisation but it can be slow at peak times. The two lanes are a lane gain towards J19 which helps massively.
* M66 -> M60 anti-clockwise = two lanes through the roundabout, straight into the same problems with the anti-clockwise M60 movement and J17.
* M60 anti-clockwise -> M62 = two lanes through, has a merging problem but this has been eased since the ALR scheme was finished.

Ultimately, it does not matter what HE propose to do with Simister because until you sort out M60 J17 and the bottleneck on the M66 at J2, throwing upto a third of a billion quid at this junction makes absolutely jack all change to the surrounding problem spots.

Also you'd place even more stress on the 4 into 3 constraint at J15, which already queues back to - yep, you guessed - J18.

Given so many of the M60 movements are individual drivers commuting around Greater Manchester, could this third of a billion be spent on better ways to move these people thus freeing up the M60 for the freight and essential car users? I'd say yes.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by A320Driver »

Based on what they are doing at M25 J10, (ie wasting taxpayer money on a colossal scale), I wouldn’t hold out much hope for any free flow.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

Helvellyn wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:17 What are the major flows? My assumption is that M60-M62 is the biggest, which is already freeflow but I couldn't guess that well the others (I've not been through it regularly enough to get a feel).
Mainline AADTs are:

M60W 160k
M62 125k
M60S 110k
M66 90k

So I would guess the heaviest right turn volumes in order are:

M60W to M60S
M66 to M62W
M60S to M62
M62 to M66
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Truvelo »

So the original freeflow links as proposed over 50 years would still be beneficial now. Perhaps that is what the £338m million scheme is.
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Gav
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Gav »

full freeflow
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nowster
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by nowster »

Gav wrote:full freeflow
Some of those movements are extremely tight and have excessive gradients, especially in the NW corner. There's quite a height difference between the top and bottom levels.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by darkcape »

Going off Wisely and M6 J10, it'll be the same layout, but *bigger bridges*
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Chris5156 »

nowster wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 21:33
Gav wrote:full freeflow
Some of those movements are extremely tight and have excessive gradients, especially in the NW corner. There's quite a height difference between the top and bottom levels.
...and there’s no right turn from M66 to M60 anti-clockwise!
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by JammyDodge »

My idea, sorry about the awful drawing by me. Blue is motorway, red signals the start and end of bridges.
J18-1.jpg
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Chris5156 »

JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 23:45 My idea, sorry about the awful drawing by me. Blue is motorway, red signals the start and end of bridges.
You have the M60 clockwise movement twice, once direct and again as a loop. I’d keep the direct one.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by JammyDodge »

Another, cheaper solution, which could be used. Removing the M60 turning traffic from the roundabout
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by JammyDodge »

Chris5156 wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 23:57
JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 23:45 My idea, sorry about the awful drawing by me. Blue is motorway, red signals the start and end of bridges.
You have the M60 clockwise movement twice, once direct and again as a loop. I’d keep the direct one.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

The problem with the original plan is that it puts the new slips much closer to J17. It's essentially an additional limited access junction to the west of the existing one. Already the weaving situation is very bad.

Here's an alternative that stays closer to the existing weaving distance:

M60 M62 M66 1 - Copy.jpg

It keeps the M60 TOTSOs as they are appropriate to flows in this configuration.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by nowster »

IIRC Steven has some drawings of what was once planned.
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by Truvelo »

The original proposal is on the Wiki. There would have been a short C/D system at J17 to move the weaving off the main carriageway.

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... ter_Island
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From the SABRE Wiki: Simister Island :


Simister Island - junction 18 of the M60, junction 18 of the M62 and junction 4 of the M66 - forms the north eastern corner of the M60 Manchester Outer Ring Road. Opened in 1971 as a standard two level roundabout with provision for an underpass onto the Bury Easterly Bypass (now M66) when constructed, it has since become vastly over-capacity.

In 1999 as part of the creation of the M60, the interchange was given free-flow sliproads for all left

... Read More
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jackal
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Re: M60 Junction 18 Simister Island Interchange

Post by jackal »

I didn't know about the C/D as it's not really visible in that image. I doubt it would be feasible today given how close the housing is.
Last edited by jackal on Wed Jun 03, 2020 17:33, edited 2 times in total.
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